Revoked Baptism?

[freeatlast]

Originally Posted by Sherri

We rarely baptize someone the day they ask to be baptized. We have someone from the staff or baptismal committee meet with them and make sure that they understand repentance, and what they are about to do. We don't take it lightly, and we don't want to baptize someone who is going to blatantly continue in their sin.

That's just good pastoring Sherri.

So often , some of us are in such a rush to get someone in the water so we can get our baptismal count up, that we have no concern that they understand the commitment to Christ it represents.

The baptismal candidate should enter the waters odf baptism much like a bride or groom uproach the marriage covenant.

We'd have better retention of peopple if we baptized our new converts with knowledge before we baptized with water.

[Digging4Truth]

Originally Posted by freeatlast

That's just good pastoring Sherri.

So often , some of us are in such a rush to get someone in the water so we can get our baptismal count up, that we have no concern that they understand the commitment to Christ it represents.

The baptismal candidate should enter the waters odf baptism much like a bride or groom uproach the marriage covenant.

We'd have better retention of peopple if we baptized our new converts with knowledge before we baptized with water.

FAL... there is a question that has been presented here that few, if any, have attempted to answer.

People have MANY sins in their life when they come to be baptized.

If a woman comes in with pants on and jewelry on would you think it good pastoring if she were asked if she were going to continue wearing them & keeping the pants & jewelry in her house? Because if she stays in the same house with them then she will probably wear them again.

If a person smokes... is it good pastoring to ask them if they are going to stop smoking and throw away all of their cigarettes in their home before baptizing them?

I know these questions sound sarcastic but they are not presented in that manner. I believe that these are fair parallels to draw on the position that is being taken here and I would appreciate your honest thoughts on these questions.

[LadyChocolate]

Originally Posted by Digging4Truth

FAL... there is a question that has been presented here that few, if any, have attempted to answer.

People have MANY sins in their life when they come to be baptized.

If a woman comes in with pants on and jewelry on would you think it good pastoring if she were asked if she were going to continue keeping the pants & jewelry in her house? Because if she stays in the same house with them then she will probably wear them again.

If a person smokes... is it good pastoring to ask them if they are going to stop smoking and throw away all of their cigarettes before baptizing them?

I know these questions sound sarcastic but they are not presented in that manner. I believe that these are fair parallels to draw on the position that is being taken here and I would appreciate your honest thoughts on these questions.

And when are we going to let GOD change people? instead of us???

[Ron]

Originally Posted by Digging4Truth

FAL... there is a question that has been presented here that few, if any, have attempted to answer.

People have MANY sins in their life when they come to be baptized.

If a woman comes in with pants on and jewelry on would you think it good pastoring if she were asked if she were going to continue wearing them & keeping the pants & jewelry in her house? Because if she stays in the same house with them then she will probably wear them again.

If a person smokes... is it good pastoring to ask them if they are going to stop smoking and throw away all of their cigarettes in their home before baptizing them?

I know these questions sound sarcastic but they are not presented in that manner. I believe that these are fair parallels to draw on the position that is being taken here and I would appreciate your honest thoughts on these questions.

D4T, You ask some interesting questions.
I only answer some questions from this viewpoint.
Bring forth fruits meet for repentance, or show forth your repentance by actions and not just words.

Living common law is something society put together, not God.
Standards of Holiness are just that-standards.
Some believe in a higher level, others lower, still others believe it is mainly in the spirit.

Someone taking Drugs, Smoking, Living together would be (in my eyes) things that would need to change, or have the person making an effort to change to show that candidates for baptism are serious and now what it is that they are doing.

JMHO

Ron

[freeatlast]

Originally Posted by Digging4Truth

FAL... there is a question that has been presented here that few, if any, have attempted to answer.

People have MANY sins in their life when they come to be baptized.

If a woman comes in with pants on and jewelry on would you think it good pastoring if she were asked if she were going to continue wearing them & keeping the pants & jewelry in her house? Because if she stays in the same house with them then she will probably wear them again.

If a person smokes... is it good pastoring to ask them if they are going to stop smoking and throw away all of their cigarettes in their home before baptizing them?

I know these questions sound sarcastic but they are not presented in that manner. I believe that these are fair parallels to draw on the position that is being taken here and I would appreciate your honest thoughts on these questions.

Pants and jewelry are not an issue with me (or with God )
So on that issue..it's a non issue.

Smoking? That's just another weakness of the flesh. I'd advise that this is habit that the bapt. candidate should give serious thought and prayer to breaking this habit.

The very act of getting in the baptismal tank, making a public profession of the faith and a commitment to Christ MIGHT be the very thing the person needs to do to help them seek deliverance from this habit od smoking.

Now, IF I was a pastor that felt strongly that I needed to impose and enforce "standards" upon people, I spose IU would consel with them and ask if they were willing to make this commitment to my standards to join my churh.

Philips answer to the Ethopian eunuch, who asked, "what doth hinder me to be baptized"

Phillip answered, " If thou believest with all thine heart"

The philpian jailer was baptized the very night of his conversion, being told to "believe".

I believe Rom 14 gives us latitude and wisdom to decide some things on "our own" I also think this same passage let us know that 2 different preachers may decide differnetly and we are directed to honor (or tolerate) the decisiion of the other.

The ORIGINAL queston of this thread however was about baptizing sosme in KNOWN sexual sin.

Sexual sins are clearly delt with in a different and very clear tone in the scriture.

I would have to givew some serious thought to baptizing someone who was NOT planning on changing that sinful situation.

As far as their baptism being "revoked" if they did get baptized.... I just don't see that.

Like any other suin after baptism..it needs to be put under the blood.

[Digging4Truth]

I appreciate you taking the time to provide these honest thoughts.

If you will permit I will return a volley of my thoughts and together we may find our understanding pefected in the end.

Although I am currently only holding up one end of the issue I want to reiterate I am open to learn differently than the way I feel but it takes iron moving in opposite directions to be sharpened.

Originally Posted by Ron

D4T, You ask some interesting questions.
I only answer some questions from this viewpoint.
Bring forth fruits meet for repentance, or show forth your repentance by actions and not just words.

Again, though, is one sin worse than another? Do we require the same thing of someone with jewelry, cigarettes etc?

Why do we require some assurance that THIS sin will stop while not requiring the same thing of folks taking part in OTHER sins?

Originally Posted by Ron

Living common law is something society put together, not God.
Standards of Holiness are just that-standards.
Some believe in a higher level, others lower, still others believe it is mainly in the spirit.

I have asked a question along the lines of this point a little earlier in the thread.

Just for discussions sake... Where do we find Gods requirement for marriage? We know what the church does & requires but where did we get those requirements from? Is there a biblical requirement to be fulfilled before one is married?

Originally Posted by Ron

Someone taking Drugs, Smoking, Living together would be (in my eyes) things that would need to change, or have the person making an effort to change to show that candidates for baptism are serious and now what it is that they are doing.

JMHO

Ron

Bolded portion - I absolutely and totally agree with no reserve whatsoever.

Unbolded portion - This is exactly what I keep asking... do we require the same things of a smoker? of someoen laden with jewelry? Why do we require up front confirmation of intent to change on people in a sexual relationship yet do not require the same confirmation of intent of someone who smokes etc?

[Digging4Truth]

Originally Posted by freeatlast

Pants and jewelry are not an issue with me (or with God )
So on that issue..it's a non issue.

Smoking? That's just another weakness of the flesh. I'd advise that this is habit that the bapt. candidate should give serious thought and prayer to breaking this habit.

The very act of getting in the baptismal tank, making a public profession of the faith and a commitment to Christ MIGHT be the very thing the person needs to do to help them seek deliverance from this habit od smoking.

Now, IF I was a pastor that felt strongly that I needed to impose and enforce "standards" upon people, I spose IU would consel with them and ask if they were willing to make this commitment to my standards to join my churh.

Philips answer to the Ethopian eunuch, who asked, "what doth hinder me to be baptized"

Phillip answered, " If thou believest with all thine heart"

The philpian jailer was baptized the very night of his conversion, being told to "believe".

I believe Rom 14 gives us latitude and wisdom to decide some things on "our own" I also think this same passage let us know that 2 different preachers may decide differnetly and we are directed to honor (or tolerate) the decisiion of the other.

The ORIGINAL queston of this thread however was about baptizing sosme in KNOWN sexual sin.

Sexual sins are clearly delt with in a different and very clear tone in the scriture.

I would have to givew some serious thought to baptizing someone who was NOT planning on changing that sinful situation.

As far as their baptism being "revoked" if they did get baptized.... I just don't see that.

Like any other suin after baptism..it needs to be put under the blood.

First... my question was to point out inconsistencies in application. Your beliefs you have posted here put you outside the realm of one being inconsistent. I appreciate your post.

Second... I wish I knew more of the story. I wish I knew the boys attitude and what he was asked and how he responded. There are so many variables that are not taken in here and maybe I will be able to gather further information later.

Thanks again for your thoughtful & honest post.

[freeatlast]

Ww look and see only on the outside, and we judge mainly those things in our ranks.

God however looks on the heart.

[LadyChocolate]

Originally Posted by freeatlast

Like any other sin after baptism..it needs to be put under the blood.

Agreed! How many were fornicators and were baptized...and then slipped up again.....did he/she have to be rebaptized. I'm not talking about one who goes and plays the field....But mistakes do happen............

[LadyChocolate]

How they live is between them and God.... It is the preachers job to deliver the Word. It is our job to live and that, my friend, is between me and my God!