Explanation of Changes in UPC

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Esther

But are you saying those that said it ws wrong long ago or more right than those saying it is ok was not ever necessarily wrong?

Just asking who you think is right in your eyes?

Esther, I’m not sure if I understand your question.

I’m not very religious. So I’m not real focused on “standards”…I prefer to stand by principles or Christian disciplines. I do believe in pastoral authority. I simply believe that pastors should preach their convictions…not be forced to preach a narrow ideological set of standards or convictions they may not believe in. If something is plainly stated in Scripture (modesty, hair standards, the ten commandments, etc.) those are non-negotiable. But things not specifically addressed in the Bible should be pastoral issues. And certainly there should be some consistency in a pastor’s position or it undermines the saint’s confidence in his moral judgments. For example you have pastors that have no issue with allowing the internet in the home even though movies, television, and worse are accessible online; yet they will condemn or disfellowship men or families who have a television. In my opinion that’s not consistent and though it may not happen immediately, such a position will eventually undermine that pastor’s creditability in the eyes of many saints.

We’re not Catholic. Our churches are meant to be autonomous bodies that are in fellowship with one another. Diversity should be expected and welcomed. We were never intended to be a hierarchal religious system with the General Superintendent functioning like a Pope and committees functioning like a See of Cardinals.

[embonpoint]

Originally Posted by LadyChocolate

...that is so true... I have found out that even if two men are standing on the same foundation, the same word of God; if you hold convictions (not standards, but convictions) they don't hold, the other is considered a compromiser or a liberal...

10 men in a room and you'll have 15 different opinions

5 from the men and the other 10 from their wives???

Originally Posted by Pragmatist

If the pastor is staying in the UPC and not advertising on TV, why should he need to say anything? For him and his church, nothing has changed.

If he is leaving the UPC or beginning a new advertising program, then it should be addressed with the congregation.

If someone asks about it on a personal level, he should be honest.

why should the saints not know what is going on in the organization either way...is it a secret? I think what will happen is it will give many permission to explore TV and even those pastors staying in the UPC don't want that....because the sheep are not smart enough to discern what is bad and what is OK on TV, in many ways I see fear of knowledge in the church...it is the secret attitude that baffles me...again it says the saints are not able to discern for themselves what is healthy and what is not...I personally got tired of being treated like I was stupid or ignorant...I am an adult and able to make my own choices.....isn't that what the HG is for....to help us decern!

[Blubayou]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Esther, I’m not sure if I understand your question.

I’m not very religious. So I’m not real focused on “standards”…I prefer to stand by principles or Christian disciplines. I do believe in pastoral authority. I simply believe that pastors should preach their convictions…not be forced to preach a narrow ideological set of standards or convictions they may not believe in. If something is plainly stated in Scripture (modesty, hair standards, the ten commandments, etc.) those are non-negotiable. But things not specifically addressed in the Bible should be pastoral issues. And certainly there should be some consistency in a pastor’s position or it undermines the saint’s confidence in his moral judgments. For example you have pastors that have no issue with allowing the internet in the home even though movies, television, and worse are accessible online; yet they will condemn or disfellowship men or families who have a television. In my opinion that’s not consistent and though it may not happen immediately, such a position will eventually undermine that pastor’s creditability in the eyes of many saints.

We’re not Catholic. Our churches are meant to be autonomous bodies that are in fellowship with one another. Diversity should be expected and welcomed. We were never intended to be a hierarchal religious system with the General Superintendent functioning like a Pope and committees functioning like a See of Cardinals.

Good Post! I agree with most of what you said. I will say that my pastor has addressed this to the church body. He stated that he did not have a problem with the direction of UPC and if he ever did then he would address it. ( this is not a direct quote, but what I got out of what he said).

[RandyWayne]

10 men in a room and you'll have 15 different opinions

Ever hear several "oneness" men arguing about what "oneness" is? I have and it is not pretty. Even on the UPC's own forums it will leave your head spinning and doubting that 1 plus equals 2 anymore.
I am sure glad that "oneness" or the perfect understanding thereof, is vital to salvation.... Although many would argue that.

[Apprehended]

The lack of information or worse, disinformation, leads to lack of trust or worse, distrust.

[ManOfWord]

Originally Posted by Sister Truth Seeker

why should the saints not know what is going on in the organization either way...is it a secret? I think what will happen is it will give many permission to explore TV and even those pastors staying in the UPC don't want that....because the sheep are not smart enough to discern what is bad and what is OK on TV, in many ways I see fear of knowledge in the church...it is the secret attitude that baffles me...again it says the saints are not able to discern for themselves what is healthy and what is not...I personally got tired of being treated like I was stupid or ignorant...I am an adult and able to make my own choices.....isn't that what the HG is for....to help us decern!

I hear you Sis!!! If, as some pastors think, that the sheep are not smart enough to know what is good for them, then it is THEIR fault for #1 Not equipping them for battle; #2 Not instructing them what to battle; #3 Not taking them into battle with him and showing them how it is done; #4 Not allowing them to go into battle on their own and trusting that they will use what he gave them and war they way he taught them. #5 Not helping when they get into trouble.

Instead, too many are just berated because they didn't do it right and because they didn't do it right they are dangled over the pit of hell and expected to "pray through" and repent of their mistake. Yes, it's oversimplified. Yes, it's exaggerated. But it is not too far from the truth.

[Pragmatist]

Originally Posted by Sister Truth Seeker

why should the saints not know what is going on in the organization either way...is it a secret? I think what will happen is it will give many permission to explore TV and even those pastors staying in the UPC don't want that....because the sheep are not smart enough to discern what is bad and what is OK on TV, in many ways I see fear of knowledge in the church...it is the secret attitude that baffles me...again it says the saints are not able to discern for themselves what is healthy and what is not...I personally got tired of being treated like I was stupid or ignorant...I am an adult and able to make my own choices.....isn't that what the HG is for....to help us decern!

My pastor has not addressed the issue and I see no reason why he should. It doesn't affect our church. I don't think he's keeping it secret, he just has more important things to talk about.

[Aquila]

My pastor doesn't own a television, yet he does watch DVDs (tries to stick with Rated G and Christian films). He doesnt mandate that we not have a television but occasionally he'll throw out a hint as to how blessed we'd be if we would choose not to have one or greatly reduce our viewing.

[BrotherEastman]

5 pages.......
49 posts.......

folks, the UPC needs a healer.