((((UPC FLASH)))))) Announcing the Next Possible General SUPT. Of the UPC!!!

[SDG]

Originally Posted by ChicagoPastor

baggage?
NO ONE in the history of the UPC can boast the numbers of people filled with the HG, churches planted, people baptized, crusades, ect like those of the JC administration.

Headquarters misses him. Haney didn't want him to quit.
Home Missions hasn't been the same since he left.

Hmm.....

[SDG]

Originally Posted by RevBuddy

Go re read Daniel's first post. He's right on!

JC has too much baggage from his GHMD days. KH had to clean all that up...

Originally Posted by ChicagoPastor

baggage?
NO ONE in the history of the UPC can boast the numbers of people filled with the HG, churches planted, people baptized, crusades, ect like those of the JC administration.

Headquarters misses him. Haney didn't want him to quit.
Home Missions hasn't been the same since he left.

No one loves JC more than many of us who have seen his ministry flourish ... and know and appreciate him on a personal level.

His resume speaks for itself and his contributions to the work of God are yet mounting.

I submit that in the world of UPCI politics ... there are realities one must accept when making predictions or supporting a candidacy...

I sat at a table years ago when several men on the "inside" were advocating JC ... and told this "young buck" that Jones would probably win but they were part of a push to back JC.

This inexperienced kid then boldly predicted Kenneth Haney would be the next GS ... they laughed.

----------------------------

CP ... I will remind you that numbers are just that ... numbers.

RevBuddy is no neophyte, either.

[Coonskinner]

What happens in Tulsa will have a direct impact on who the next GS is.

If Tulsa flourishes and draws away a lot of conservative men, JC's chances will increase dramatically, because conservatives will not vote for him.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by Coonskinner

What happens in Tulsa will have a direct impact on who the next GS is.

If Tulsa flourishes and draws away a lot of conservative men, JC's chances will increase dramatically, because conservatives will not vote for him.

Quotes like these are confusing ... I thought many are staying and still joining the other fellowship????

I would imagine that a man like PM would have a good chance as the next GS if those double dipping mobilize a grassroots movement.

[Coonskinner]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Quotes like these are confusing ... I thought many are staying and still joining the other fellowship????

I would imagine that a man like PM would have a good chance as the next GS if those double dipping mobilize a grassroots movement.

Why would it be confusing?

I think many men will initially stay in the UPC and yet join the Tulsa movement.

Whether they will remain in the UPC if the Tulsa thing does well is another matter.

I am of the opinion that the move out of the UPC will be something many do in increments.

Going to Tulsa is probably the first step on that journey. Some will never go any farther; others will.

If the Tulsa thing goes big, more men will eventually join, leaving a gap in the UPC which will be filled by something.

The fact is that I don't think anybody really knows or can know exactly what is coming out of Tulsa, or where it will be in a couple of years.

But if it is a flourishing, signifigant entity, it will affect the political climate of the UPC in a major way.

So tell me, how is a quote like mine confusing?

I'm not trying to stir a fuss, just curious as to your thinking.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by Coonskinner

Why would it be confusing?

I think many men will initially stay in the UPC and yet join the Tulsa movement.

Whether they will remain in the UPC if the Tulsa thing does well is another matter.

I am of the opinion that the move out of the UPC will be something many do in increments.

Going to Tulsa is probably the first step on that journey. Some will never go any farther; others will.

If the Tulsa thing goes big, more men will eventually join, leaving a gap in the UPC which will be filled by something.

The fact is that I don't think anybody really knows or can know exactly what is coming out of Tulsa, or where it will be in a couple of years.

But if it is a flourishing, signifigant entity, it will affect the political climate of the UPC in a major way.

So tell me, how is a quote like mine confusing?

I'm not trying to stir a fuss, just curious as to your thinking.

Perhaps because some have said that the way the new fellowship is structured no one will really need to be "drawn" out or really leave ...

If this premise is true that one can be part of both fellowships indefinitely and many cons choose this option ... then it would make sense that the new fellowship would be able to orchestrate a more mobilized and unified conservative agenda even w/ in the UPCI.

The political climate could then be affected by outside forces still influential within.

Does this make sense?

[Coonskinner]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Perhaps because some have said that the way the new fellowship is structured no one will really need to be "drawn" out or really leave ...

If this premise is true that one can be part of both fellowships indefinitely and many cons choose this option ... then it would make sense that the new fellowship would be able to orchestrate a more mobilized and unified conservative agenda even w/ in the UPCI.

The political climate could then be affected by outside forces still influential within.

Does this make sense?

From what I understand, it is the intent of the Tulsa men to allow for two levels of membership in the new fellowship--one being credentialed membership, and the other being more of just a fellowship status, allowing the minister to hold credentials with the UPC still.

However, my opinion is that this kind of set up won't last forever.

Knowing the nature of men and organizations, I think eventually there will be a push to either fish or cut bait. I don't think the either-or option can remain workable forever. But again, that is just my opinion.

Feelings are too strong on both sides of the divide. One or the other is going to move eventually to curtail having your cake and eating it too, I think.

But that's just my predicition, and what do I know?

[rgcraig]

Originally Posted by Coonskinner

From what I understand, it is the intent of the Tulsa men to allow for two levels of membership in the new fellowship--one being credentialed membership, and the other being more of just a fellowship status, allowing the minister to hold credentials with the UPC still.

However, my opinion is that this kind of set up won't last forever.

Knowing the nature of men and organizations, I think eventually there will be a push to either fish or cut bait. I don't think the either-or option can remain workable forever. But again, that is just my opinion.

Feelings are too strong on both sides of the divide. One or the other is going to move eventually to curtail having your cake and eating it too, I think.

But that's just my predicition, and what do I know?

Have to say, I agree with ya here!

[SDG]

Originally Posted by Coonskinner

From what I understand, it is the intent of the Tulsa men to allow for two levels of membership in the new fellowship--one being credentialed membership, and the other being more of just a fellowship status, allowing the minister to hold credentials with the UPC still.

However, my opinion is that this kind of set up won't last forever.

Knowing the nature of men and organizations, I think eventually there will be a push to either fish or cut bait. I don't think the either-or option can remain workable forever. But again, that is just my opinion.

Feelings are too strong on both sides of the divide. One or the other is going to move eventually to curtail having your cake and eating it too, I think.

But that's just my predicition, and what do I know?

I agree that folks will have to choose one or the other ... however if this option is open even for a short while ... it will be interesting to see how this double-dipping dynamic will work and if it will have effects in elections.

[ChicagoPastor]

In response to BOOM. JC is not leaving the UPC. He is conservative from his up bringing but through the years he has become more of a moderate.
His Church would not be considered con at all. It is what I'd call "normal" UPC but not con or lib.

In reponse to DA: You're right. numbers are numbers....but you know as well as I do that numbers mean A LOT in the UPC.

IF Haney starts promoting JC a lot and people hear that he's taken a church fom 300 too over 700 in less than 3 years....it's going to get people's attention. Especially since the Church doesn't stop growing. JMO