Excellent insight and to me how it all should work!
Demanding respect or submission is not the way it should be ever - all that does is cause resentment. Just like you've said, if the man is submissive to God as his head and not striving to be "the boss", then as long as he respect and loves his wife she will not have a problem one being submissive to him and letting him lead.
Good job Prax!
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Master of Science in Applied Disgruntled Religious Theorist Wrangling
PhD in Petulant Tantrum Quelling
Dean of the School of Hard Knocks
You make some good points here...beatings should be spaced out at least 2-3 months apart....even if she does not deserve it. But remember to spank her so as to not leave any visible scars....
Seriously I don't think a man can "assert" his authority in that case. She has to willingly give it to him and if he should not take advantage of it. A good woman should know or learn how to make a man feel like a man IMO and a good man should know how to make a woman feel like a woman. He feels strong and his male ego is stroked and she feels pretty and intelligent....I think one area men fail is making her feel dumb and not equal in intellect.
If you want chattle, yes and she should baa baa every now and then. If you want a true help meet...someone walking by yourside, you better NOT ever say "Im the boss"...
It takes two to tango. He needs to be willing to listen to her opinions and objectively weigh them but she needs to make him feel like he is the head. The question is not her submitting, but who and what is she submitting to? These sort of topics can NEVER be one sided. It really takes both. Then need to work on this thing together. He might not even make a great "leader" but might be willing to with her help....remember she is a help meet. Not a servent.
Why does he have to assert it?
I agree with what you've typed here.
Great leaders are made, not born (usually) anyhow. A woman can make or break her husband just as easily as he can make or break her. With both parties working to be in relationship as outlined in the Bible, it's a learning and growing experience. Growing together is good for the marriage. If either party gets out of balance, the whole thing can go bad in a really quick hurry.
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You become free from who you have become, by becoming who you were meant to be. ~Mark from another forum I post on
God did it for us. Out of sheer generosity he put us in right standing with himself. A pure gift. He got us out of the mess we're in and restored us to where he always wanted us to be. And he did it by means of Jesus Christ. ~Romans 3:24 from The Message
Prax, I wasn't going here, but when you posted that about Men in Black - I couldn't help it.
My husband said one thing that attracted him to me was my self-confidence and outgoing personality. The day we got married, things changed. He was insecure and began flexing his authority by "breaking my spirit". I was submissive and obedient because I was raised that way, so to make things work I didn't cause any waves - I withdrew, I never stood up to him. I completely changed and was miserable. I feared him and he knew that I did. He said it was the only way he knew how to act.
He said he begin to lose respect for me because I wouldn't stand up to him. I didn't because I feared what would happen - he had made it very clear in the past.
So, he broke my spirit then was upset at me because I changed.
This is not just "my idea" of things, but what he actually told me while we were going through the divorce. He said now he knows he did so many things wrong and because of his insecurities and problems he completely ruined our marriage.
If he had just loved and respected me and let me be me, the woman he loved and not tried to "break my spirit" who knows what would have happened. I respected, obeyed and submitted to him, but not out of honor as much as for fear. Sad really.
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Master of Science in Applied Disgruntled Religious Theorist Wrangling
PhD in Petulant Tantrum Quelling
Dean of the School of Hard Knocks
Sort of going off of Jeanie's comments on another thread...
How should a man assert or establish his authority or position as head of the household? Obviously he shouldn't beat 'er down every month or so to do that, which is despicable, but it's difficult when you have two strong individuals, even when you both are trying to live as God requires.
Why does that sound like a fatal disease: Establish authority?
Is it the responsibility of the man to make comments like "I'm the boss"?
If he has to make them then he isn't the boss and by opening his mouth proves it.
Should the woman just deal with it and "submit"?
If that is the case she should never marry.
Obviously these are extremes, but how would one tactfully assert what they believe to be their God-mandated role?
If an man and woman truly love God and truly love each other then this will naturally fall into place through submission of each to God and submission to each other which is exaclty what the scripture teaches.
The Bible teaches:
Men should break away from their family of origin and cleave to their wife.
Men should love their wife like Christ loved the church and gave His own life up for her redemption, protection, restoration, and covering.
Women should respect their husband and honor his position [give him permission to be the head of her home when she says, "I do."]
Women should HELP their husband and promote him and make him look good to the public.
Men and women should honor God above all things and honor each other. They should never air their private lives in public and should never disagree or belittle one another in public or in front of the children.
Men and women should pray, seek counsel, and soberly make a decision/commitment to love and stay together always...until death.
Prax, I wasn't going here, but when you posted that about Men in Black - I couldn't help it.
My husband said one thing that attracted him to me was my self-confidence and outgoing personality. The day we got married, things changed. He was insecure and began flexing his authority by "breaking my spirit". I was submissive and obedient because I was raised that way, so to make things work I didn't cause any waves - I withdrew, I never stood up to him. I completely changed and was miserable. I feared him and he knew that I did. He said it was the only way he knew how to act.
He said he begin to lose respect for me because I wouldn't stand up to him. I didn't because I feared what would happen - he had made it very clear in the past.
So, he broke my spirit then was upset at me because I changed.
This is not just "my idea" of things, but what he actually told me while we were going through the divorce. He said now he knows he did so many things wrong and because of his insecurities and problems he completely ruined our marriage.
If he had just loved and respected me and let me be me, the woman he loved and not tried to "break my spirit" who knows what would have happened. I respected, obeyed and submitted to him, but not out of honor as much as for fear. Sad really.
This is the catch-22 of the submission topic. While I firmly believe in the rightful roles of authority and submission between a husband and a wife in marriage, as girls growing up in the church we have not generally been taught the difference between being submitted, and being abused. I am seeing more of it taught now, at least in my church, what it really means to have a biblical relationship, and how God expects us to treat each other.
The hardest thing about being in an emotionally abusive relationship is that there are no visible scars. Most men who are emotionally and psychologically abusive are very smart, and very good at hiding it in public. Any kind of abuse breaks down the will of a human to survive, and if you believe that you have to submit to it, then it is a double whammy. And with any kind of abuse, the abused want to hide it, or pretend it isn't happening.
The other problem is the church as whole doesn't know what to do with emotional and psychological abuse, it is one of those areas that makes everyone nervous. The result is that if you do work up the courage to escape, you forever live with a question mark hanging over your head. Which is why many women walk away from God, it is just to much to live through that and then have to deal with rejection from the church. I thank God that I had people willing to stand by me.
There are no easy answers for this and I am not trying to pretend that there are. It is just another, more sobering side to the issue being discussed.
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