Do You Believe In Women Preachers?

[TK Burk]

Originally Posted by HeavenlyOne

That's my logic??? You are the one who said it, remember???

I may need to study more, but you need to remember what you are talking about so we can have honest conversation.

No I never did. Please, give the post number where I said that. Your ability to supply this number will determine the honesty of your conversation.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Barb

Elder, respectfully, here YOU go...

I read the first two links and stopped.

The first link is dealing with women who crossed a line...you really want to put the heavy-handedness of Jezebel in the same sentence with Sis. Freeman or Mangun?! Yikes!!

Sweet love of God. I haven't the foggiest idea what you are talking about.
Why are you doing this? Why must you do this? Why is it that you feel the need to misrepresent everyone who disagrees with your dogma. You see here we have projection, the above is what "some" accuse me of, but I have been around FCF, NFCF, and now the slow moving AFF for too many years to not know the drill. Sister Barbara I can't understand where you say that I compared any woman preacher with Jezebel. Can you please quote where I did what you said?

Originally Posted by Barb

In the second link you first mentioned women submitting unto their own husbands...asking the men at home any questions they may have.

This is referring tho the fact that the women were running amuck due to the new order of things in services...where they were one time isolated from learning, they could now sit in service with the men.

The above is called S-P-E-C-U-L-A-T-I-O-N, sorry but that's wrong. They are told to submit to their own husbands because their own husbands are the ONLY male leadership that these women were to have.

Originally Posted by Barb

Unlearned, they were asking questions in the middle of services, so Paul said to stop and ask your husband at home.

Eph 5:22-33 "WIVES, SUBMIT YOURSELVES UNTO YOUR OWN HUSBANDS, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to THEIR OWN HUSBANDS IN EVERY THING. Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish. So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself. For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church: For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones. For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh. This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church. Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband."


Col 3:18

"Wives, submit yourselves unto your OWN husbands, as it is fit in the Lord."

Tit 2:3-5

"The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things; That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children, To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, OBEDIENT TO THEIR OWN HUSBANDS, THAT THE WORD OF GOD BE NOT BLASPHEMED."

1Pe 3:1-2

"Likewise, ye wives, be in SUBJECTION TO YOUR OWN HUSBANDS; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives; While they behold your chaste conversation coupled with fear."

Originally Posted by Barb

You then said that if someone asks a woman the name of her pastor, she should say her husband's last name...whoa!!

Interesting response, maybe you could explain, and therefore I can properly respond to you.

Originally Posted by Barb

I stopped right there...no offense, but this is a bit much for me.

I have no idea what you are referring to, so maybe you can overcome your emotions and allow me to know what you're referring to?

Originally Posted by Barb

Respectfully, the Scriptures you cited prove nothing to me.

Of course not, what would make me think you would respond any other manner.

Originally Posted by Barb

You believe that a woman can't teach a man...hmmmm...

The Bible teaches a woman cannot teach married or adult single man.

Originally Posted by Barb

You are saying that if you are driving the wrong way, and your wife says, "Hon, I think you should turn left, and she is RIGHT about it, she can't tell you because she's a woman?!"

Are you meaning to tell the whole world that you cannot distinguish between a woman bringing up the directions to her husband and the five fold ministry of the Body of Christ? Talk about yikes. How about if a crackhead says "Jesus is God" is he wrong? I'm not submitting to my wife by listening to my wife read a map. I think you are missing this.

Originally Posted by Barb

If a woman has learned something in any area that a man does not yet know, she can't enlighten him because she is a woman?!

If you would of took the time to be fair and read what I had posted you would of known where I was coming from. We are talking about the Bible, not police officers, butchers, bakers, and candle stick makers.

Originally Posted by Barb

Yikes...sorry, I don't understand this or believe it.

Well, keep reading your Bible and research this out. You will find that the Bible does not teach about females teaching adult men.

Originally Posted by Barb

Because of my respect for you, I will now bow out of this...have a good day, Elder.

Thank you for saying the above, I just don't understand this who hit and run motif. If you have no scriptural refutation in the future then why even bother to respond to me like this. It's not that I don't want to correspond with you, but all this really doesn’t prove anything.

Lord bless you.

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

[TK Burk]

Originally Posted by nahkoe

I think what Sis Alvear is saying is that two people sometimes study the same passage of scripture with the same intent, to discern what it truly says. They pray to the same God asking for revelation and clarification of what He truly wants them to see and know as truth. Very often, you still end up with 2 different interpretations. Both of you *know* you're right, so who's right?

I think she was using the word feel in this context, not as "this feels good so I'm going to believe this", but as "I believe this to be true". I consider "feel" to be less harsh than "know" when interpretation is being discussed. Y'all prefer the harsher approach though from what I've seen. lol

To me, I read these things the same way. Feel, believe, know, all mean you've studied it out and this is what your thoughts are on the matter.

Yes, I got that. But the issue is, where are these scriptures? So far we have Debra leading men into a battle while riding a horse (or chariot). But nowhere do we find this happening. Would someone please list these scriptures so we can all study them together and see if we can agree?

[TK Burk]

Originally Posted by HeavenlyOne

Oddly enough, when referring to the office of a bishop, 'bishop' is a feminine noun.

Kinda blows the 'masculine words mean men only' theory, doesn't it?

Actually, yes, you did. Here is your post:

Originally Posted by HeavenlyOne

Actually, I wasn't the one making the point, I was just counteracting yours.

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by Lost and Found

Yes, I got that. But the issue is, where are these scriptures? So far we have Debra leading men into a battle while riding a horse (or chariot). But nowhere do we find this happening. Would someone please list these scriptures so we can all study them together and see if we can agree?

Debra just saw what could be done, and that none of the wimpy men had the vision or the courage to do it. So she just slipped in to the enemy's tent and nailed the sucker's head to the ground with a very long nail.

Doesn't matter if I believe in women preachers are not.

God does lead woman to be engaged in the work of righteousness and those ladies that hear, go to it.

[TK Burk]

Originally Posted by HeavenlyOne

I'm not sure why you bring up the 'elder' issue. Nobody claimed she was an elder. A preacher is not necessarily an elder. An elder is not necessarily a preacher. Those are two separate issues, really.

But tell me, what difference does it make if one speaks to an individual or household the same words spoken behind a pulpit? Do you know what the definition of 'preach' even is? I'll give you a hint.....it's got nothing to do with a platform, church, or pulpit.

Originally Posted by HeavenlyOne

I have to wonder why you have an agenda about elders when we aren't talking about that. You keep reminding me that the topic is women preachers, but you keep speaking about elders. Why is that?

HO, if you had read my posts, you would have seen that I have many times said that ALL SAINTS are ministers. What we (or at least most of us here) are talking about is whether a woman has a biblical right to be a leader (elder) in a church. Yes, I understand what you are trying to say with defining "preacher." But we are not talking about being a witness for Christ; we're talking about being a preacher that is recognized as a leader in the Church.

We have MANY scriptures where a woman ministers in the Church. I listed several of those already. What we do not have is scriptures allowing a woman to lead as an elder.

I hope this helps you better see what's going on here.

[TK Burk]

Originally Posted by HeavenlyOne

More than you can prove she didn't.

Here we go; honest conversation time: please list these for us....

[Felicity]

Originally Posted by crakjak

Debra just saw what could be done, and that none of the wimpy men had the vision or the courage to do it. So she just slipped in to the enemy's tent and nailed the sucker's head to the ground with a very long nail.

Doesn't matter if I believe in women preachers are not.

God does lead woman to be engaged in the work of righteousness and those ladies that hear, go to it.

Deborah encouraged, supported and rode alongside Barak.

It was Jael who nailed Sisera's head to the ground. (Judges 5:25-27)

She was pretty savvy too to give him milk to drink. Milk has known sedative effects.

[TK Burk]

Originally Posted by HeavenlyOne

Here ya go.......

Acts 18:24 And a certain Jew named Apollos, born at Alexandria, an eloquent man, and mighty in the scriptures, came to Ephesus.

25 This man was instructed in the way of the Lord; and being fervent in the spirit, he spake and taught diligently the things of the Lord, knowing only the baptism of John.

26 And he began to speak boldly in the synagogue: whom when Aquila and Priscilla had heard, they took him unto them, and expounded unto him the way of God more perfectly.

We already dealt with this.

Where does it say that this sister was an elder in the Church? To say anything more than it these passages say would be little more than taking text out of context.

[TK Burk]

Originally Posted by HeavenlyOne

ROFL! A rebuke to the men? You got scripture for that, or is that just another one of your insane rantings?

Read it for yourself. Produce the scripture(s) that show him wrong.

So far the ladies (no offense intended) have a horse riding (or chariot riding) Debra leading men into battle...and you say EB is in error?