David Bernard Weighs In on General Board Decision

[Mrs. LPW]

In a lot of ways I think Scotty makes a good point.

[A_PoMo]

Originally Posted by Sweet Pea

Hm-m-m-m-m-m.... adjoining wall with your boss? OR adjoining wall with LY? Now you've got me to thinking....

The boss. My office was to the left of his and between the boss and RB. Does that help?

I apologize for sounding so melodramatic in the previous post. However, it is what happened the way I remember it and it had such a huge impact on me personally and helped launch the trajectory of my life into a whole new direction that I get a little emotional about it. It was the final straw of many in a long series of events for me while I worked there.

[A_PoMo]

Originally Posted by papapraiz

What is LY doing today?

He's pastoring a church in Idaho. Independent I believe. And doing well. He was in town a year or so ago teaching a seminar. He and his wife look great and seemed to be doing fine. His son attends a church in town and just started a foster care agency. His daughter lives in So.Cal and comes up here to visit once in awhile.

[Sweet Pea]

Originally Posted by A_PoMo

The boss. My office was to the left of his and between the boss and RB. Does that help?

I apologize for sounding so melodramatic in the previous post. However, it is what happened the way I remember it and it had such a huge impact on me personally and helped launch the trajectory of my life into a whole new direction that I get a little emotional about it. It was the final straw of many in a long series of events for me while I worked there.

Gotcha!

You weren't melodramatic - I have often wondered what caused you to choose the road you have taken... You were missed. Blessings you to and your family!

[CC1]

Originally Posted by scotty

Now see CC1, there you go again. You want to tell us how wrong we are fine, I could do the same about you but I will not be a judge. I do have the right however to argue against your hopes. What if I and others don't want the changes in UPC that you do? How come people who have left the org. think they should determine how those of us in the org. should believe?

Do you seriously not see the wrong in that?

If your child at the age of 18 decides he doesn't want to live under your rules anymore and moves out, what would you think if that child was still trying to change the rules of your home from the outside? Silly isn't it.

You want to change the UPC, come on back, roll your sleeves up and help, don't give up and leave and then think that in all your new found infinate wisdom that you can change things.

I don't want change in UPC, I would like to see change in the church that hurt your wife, but that is not representive of the whole org.

Ah, but Scotty, my warp engine engineering friend, here is the difference. I fully expect you to disagree with my positions regarding so called "standards" and so called "holiness". I expect you to contend for the extra biblical legalism to the best of your intellectual ability. I expect it and look forward to it. I expect and look forward to you contending for why I and other exUPC "liberals" are wrong. I take no offense at you thinking we are going down the wrong path and trying to make a case for that.

However it appears you do not share this same ability to recieve constructive criticism against your beliefs and organization. You somehow think that one must be a member of the club to make observations about the club and to suggest a "preferred future" for it.

If you really don't want to be involved in a forum where "outsiders" question the UPC or other old time OP's then I respectfully suggest that you are a prime canidate for the Good News Cafe forum. It would be a shame though because I enjoy most of your posts!

[SDG]

Originally Posted by CC1

Ah, but Scotty, my warp engine engineering friend, here is the difference. I fully expect you to disagree with my positions regarding so called "standards" and so called "holiness". I expect you to contend for the extra biblical legalism to the best of your intellectual ability. I expect it and look forward to it. I expect and look forward to you contending for why I and other exUPC "liberals" are wrong. I take no offense at you thinking we are going down the wrong path and trying to make a case for that.

However it appears you do not share this same ability to recieve constructive criticism against your beliefs and organization. You somehow think that one must be a member of the club to make observations about the club and to suggest a "preferred future" for it.

If you really don't want to be involved in a forum where "outsiders" question the UPC or other old time OP's then I respectfully suggest that you are a prime canidate for the Good News Cafe forum. It would be a shame though because I enjoy most of your posts!

Yes siree, Bob.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by CC1

Ah, but Scotty, my warp engine engineering friend, here is the difference. I fully expect you to disagree with my positions regarding so called "standards" and so called "holiness". I expect you to contend for the extra biblical legalism to the best of your intellectual ability. I expect it and look forward to it. I expect and look forward to you contending for why I and other exUPC "liberals" are wrong. I take no offense at you thinking we are going down the wrong path and trying to make a case for that.

However it appears you do not share this same ability to recieve constructive criticism against your beliefs and organization. You somehow think that one must be a member of the club to make observations about the club and to suggest a "preferred future" for it.

If you really don't want to be involved in a forum where "outsiders" question the UPC or other old time OP's then I respectfully suggest that you are a prime canidate for the Good News Cafe forum. It would be a shame though because I enjoy most of your posts!

CC1,
I'm going to weigh in on this one - for all it's worth.

Please don't be upset with me, but over the posting tenure I have had with you, you have painted (no punt intended) our women as "plain faced", "without natural beauty", "stringy haired", among other things and other descriptions that I can't list because I might get the quotes incorrect.

I wonder if you ever considered that there are people who really want to live the way they do? Did you consider that perhaps another church environment is not suitable for them? Did you consider that some have been lead into this organization and would not think of leaving unless the Lord opened another door? Did you consider that God is still blessing these people?

Why are you the only one that is right on this subject - for every person?

I consider "constructive criticism" as being done in a less "disparaging" dialogue, but that's just me.

Please understand that I express my thoughts with kindness to you.

[SDG]

Perception is everything.

[CC1]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

CC1,
I'm going to weigh in on this one - for all it's worth.

Please don't be upset with me, but over the posting tenure I have had with you, you have painted (no punt intended) our women as "plain faced", "without natural beauty", "stringy haired", among other things and other descriptions that I can't list because I might get the quotes incorrect.

I wonder if you ever considered that there are people who really want to live the way they do? Did you consider that perhaps another church environment is not suitable for them? Did you consider that some have been lead into this organization and would not think of leaving unless the Lord opened another door? Did you consider that God is still blessing these people?

Why are you the only one that is right on this subject - for every person?

I consider "constructive criticism" as being done in a less "disparaging" dialogue, but that's just me.

Please understand that I express my thoughts with kindness to you.

Pressing Iron,

No offense taken. It is always a touchy situation and fine line when discussing these things. I do not emphasize the things you have mentioned I have said in the past but I have made those observations (and was reminded of why I made them just this past week in several stores in town).

I think one has to remember we are discussing doctrine and philosophies here in general, not commenting on particlar individuals. When I say that a "plain faced" woman with an acne problem or some other such problem is not bringing "glory to God" by not wearing makeup I am not attacking any particular person but making an observation. If a plain faced woman with blemishes reads my post she may take offense but that is not my intention.

Of course one may choose to live ones life adhering to a set of dress codes that are extra biblical . I have no burning desire to convert every old time Pentecostal I meet to my point of view as can be atested by the friendships I have with some of the most conservative people on this forum. Would I like for everyone I ineteact with to come to the same belief and understanding I do of Christianity? Of course! Do I expect that and try to make that happen? No!

I don't sit and one on one argue with OP's and try to get them to do things they don't believe are right. That would be wrong and foolish.

However I will contend for what I believe is right in discussions on the forum and hope that somewhere sometime there are OP's reading who feel the same way but have thought they were alone.

Old time Pentecost has not been the most open culture for discussing it's traditions, doctrines, etc. And for good reason as it turns out since many do not really stand up well under scrunity. Both logically and biblically. That is the debate I am interested in. Not offending individuals.

Another example would be the saints in the pastor's church who I mentioned does not allow internet access for anybody in the church nor anyone under 18 to own a cell phone. I believe that is cultic, controlling, and not biblical. However I am sure there are some wonderful saints in that church and would not disparage them personally for the world. That is the fine line to walk.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by Pianoman

Some us us have a burden for the UPCI!

I know I do ...