For those that left the UPC...

[Godsdrummer]

Originally Posted by onefaith2

We know that the robes (if thats what they wore.. lol) would have to be significantly different so that even from a distance you could tell them apart. Something that is an abomination in the law could not have allowed otherwise.

(think harlots caught had to wear certain garments that distinguished them)

onefaith

Before you make statements you can't back up you need to study history and quit assuming that what you have been told by pastors and other to keep the saints under the unbiblical pastoral authority is true.

Savelou

Keep studing and praying God is directing you to the place you will feel comfertable serving him. My whole family went through the same thing a few years ago. Now all my children are in good churches and growing in the spirit.

[onefaith2]

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer

onefaith

Before you make statements you can't back up you need to study history and quit assuming that what you have been told by pastors and other to keep the saints under the unbiblical pastoral authority is true.

Savelou

Keep studing and praying God is directing you to the place you will feel comfertable serving him. My whole family went through the same thing a few years ago. Now all my children are in good churches and growing in the spirit.

Before you make assumptions that I just tell what pastors have told me, you need to get to know me my friend.

[Mirth1981]

Originally Posted by SavedLou

Thanks for your kindness and sincerity. I think they are banners usually only to those that are familiar with Pentecost though. Simply seeing someone dressing the standards rarely impresses or convicts people as we would like to think. It is the fruit of the Spirit that does this. Now I certainly believe in modesty, moderation and morality. I simply feel that so many man made standards are not truly Biblically based. They were founded with wonderful intentions, but most are usually based on one scripture. I do still hold to some standards, but I am growing weary of the inconsistencies. Ex. No jewelry but you can wear rhinestone embellished broaches, hair accessories, feathers in the hair, etc. We embrace "it's a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven" and reject in the very same book "it's a shame for a woman to speak in church". We say man is over woman spiritually but ordain women to be pastors. You go to UPC camps and see girls in skirts/dresses that are skin tight but who would never wear pants (gasp). I believe in principles, such as women should look like women and men like men, but things like ONE scripture on men's garments in the OT leaves room for debate. I just want people to respect that there are God-fearing, sincere Pentecostals that may have a different opinion than others and they shouldn't be made to feel they are eternally lost and backslidden, you know?

Completely agree with this post.

[Falla39]

Originally Posted by Mirth1981

I never said that I struggled with standards. I was struggling with how to leave the UPC. That was the point of this thread. I wanted insight from those that had also left, because the organization makes it very difficult for people to leave without being mistreated.

And I did leave the UPC btw. And I have no regrets whatsoever that I'm not a part of that organization anymore. I feel relieved actually. So relieved.

Mirth1981

Once again, did your husband leave with you! I only ask because of posts
you made earlier in this/your thread!

Falla39

[Sabby]

Originally Posted by Mirth1981

I never said that I struggled with standards. I was struggling with how to leave the UPC. That was the point of this thread. I wanted insight from those that had also left, because the organization makes it very difficult for people to leave without being mistreated.

And I did leave the UPC btw. And I have no regrets whatsoever that I'm not a part of that organization anymore. I feel relieved actually. So relieved.

Mirth,
I really appreciate your post. I am a former licensed member that left in the late '80s. In my case it was a cumulative effect. Let's just say it wasn't a good fit for me. While stationed in the military overseas I was baptized with the Holy Ghost. A couple of years later was working for the UPC with a Christian Worker's License and upon ETSing came to the states to go to Bible College. Graduated with a double major and hoped to re-enter the military as a military chaplain. I met Will Brewster overseas before he received his chaplaincy endorsement and it was an exciting time. The bloom soon fell off the rose, so to speak, after coming to the states. There was just SO much organizational politics and backbiting. Paul talked about it:
"But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another" Galatians 5:15
My wife and I were falsely accused by the pastor of "trying to split the church"...with no winessess, just hearsay. Needless to say, we were crushed and given no choice began attending a missions church in a neighboring town, minus the needed pastoral "blessing". When the home mission pastor refused to baptize some new converts because they weren't dressed (by they I mean the mom and the teen-aged daughter) right and in the service following quoted the scriptures together:
"He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned" Mark 16:16 and
"Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained." John 20
I thought it was time to "exit, stage right"

[Godsdrummer]

Originally Posted by onefaith2

Before you make assumptions that I just tell what pastors have told me, you need to get to know me my friend.

Touch'e sorry you are right, But having been born and raised in coservitive UPCI and having been a card carrying licenced minister I have seen and heard all the "God convicted me of this or that. The statement of God convicted me does not hold as much water with me as I was associate minister with a pastor that never preached on standards, yet people would come to him when they were leaving on more than one occasion and tell him they were leaving because he preached against this or that. When my wife came to God she took her pants off because every one else did not wear them.

Any way just thought you should know a bit about where I came from.

[Sabby]

Originally Posted by Shingledecker

Mirth,
I really appreciate your post. I am a former licensed member that left in the late '80s. In my case it was a cumulative effect. Let's just say it wasn't a good fit for me. While stationed in the military overseas I was baptized with the Holy Ghost. A couple of years later was working for the UPC with a Christian Worker's License and upon ETSing came to the states to go to Bible College. Graduated with a double major and hoped to re-enter the military as a military chaplain. I met Will Brewster overseas before he received his chaplaincy endorsement and it was an exciting time. The bloom soon fell off the rose, so to speak, after coming to the states. There was just SO much organizational politics and backbiting. Paul talked about it:
"But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another" Galatians 5:15
My wife and I were falsely accused by the pastor of "trying to split the church"...with no winessess, just hearsay. Needless to say, we were crushed and given no choice began attending a missions church in a neighboring town, minus the needed pastoral "blessing". When the home mission pastor refused to baptize some new converts because they weren't dressed (by they I mean the mom and the teen-aged daughter) right and in the service following quoted the scriptures together:
"He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned" Mark 16:16 and
"Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained." John 20:23
I thought it was time to "exit, stage right"

I left the UPC perplexed as to why things had transpired the way they did and sad that politics had hijacked (at the time) the organization. After I told my pastor how I felt about approach re: water baptism, he told me I was welcome to leave. I took him up on the offer. Mind you, I was his outreach director, taught his Search For Truth studies, taught his adult S.S. He chewed out my wife and me one morning after church saying he had talked to (my previous pastor) and wasn't about to have someone come to his church and split it! His neck veins were bulging, and I'm not exaggerating. It was a bad case of pastoral abuse. Then came the water baptism issue, etc, and I figured "enough is enough". I probably stayed too long. That home mission pastor's last words to me was, "It's mighty COLD out there, Brother .....". It was a lot colder in that church, believe me.
Over the years I've tried to fellowship UPC but with Very Limited exceptions have no response in kind.

Mirth, the best you can do is try to stay sweet, humble, and do what God is telling you to do. Might does not make right and numbers don't mean they have a "corner" on the truth. In some areas they need to grow (as do we all in some areas). It may mean a long time of limited fellowship (esp if you live in an area where Oneness churches are dominated by UPC). Hold ON to God's unchanging hand and walk with Him. He hasn't left you and just because you left the UPC doesn't mean YOU left HIM! Stay in prayer. Walk WITH your spouse (and I'm only assuming you are walking together) and hold one another UP and encourage one another in the Lord.

I posted a thread asking what it would take for apostolic unity and was serious about the question.

"Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand" Romans 14:4

[onefaith2]

Originally Posted by Shingledecker

I left the UPC perplexed as to why things had transpired the way they did and sad that politics had hijacked (at the time) the organization. After I told my pastor how I felt about approach re: water baptism, he told me I was welcome to leave. I took him up on the offer. Mind you, I was his outreach director, taught his Search For Truth studies, taught his adult S.S. He chewed out my wife and me one morning after church saying he had talked to (my previous pastor) and wasn't about to have someone come to his church and split it! His neck veins were bulging, and I'm not exaggerating. It was a bad case of pastoral abuse. Then came the water baptism issue, etc, and I figured "enough is enough". I probably stayed too long. That home mission pastor's last words to me was, "It's mighty COLD out there, Brother .....". It was a lot colder in that church, believe me.
Over the years I've tried to fellowship UPC but with Very Limited exceptions have no response in kind.

Mirth, the best you can do is try to stay sweet, humble, and do what God is telling you to do. Might does not make right and numbers don't mean they have a "corner" on the truth. In some areas they need to grow (as do we all in some areas). It may mean a long time of limited fellowship (esp if you live in an area where Oneness churches are dominated by UPC). Hold ON to God's unchanging hand and walk with Him. He hasn't left you and just because you left the UPC doesn't mean YOU left HIM! Stay in prayer. Walk WITH your spouse (and I'm only assuming you are walking together) and hold one another UP and encourage one another in the Lord.

I posted a thread asking what it would take for apostolic unity and was serious about the question.

"Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand" Romans 14:4

The UPC is not the only organization that has truth. The apostolic church consists of many members! Many just happen to like to fellowship with either UPC or WPF.

[Mirth1981]

Originally Posted by Shingledecker

I left the UPC perplexed as to why things had transpired the way they did and sad that politics had hijacked (at the time) the organization. After I told my pastor how I felt about approach re: water baptism, he told me I was welcome to leave. I took him up on the offer. Mind you, I was his outreach director, taught his Search For Truth studies, taught his adult S.S. He chewed out my wife and me one morning after church saying he had talked to (my previous pastor) and wasn't about to have someone come to his church and split it! His neck veins were bulging, and I'm not exaggerating. It was a bad case of pastoral abuse. Then came the water baptism issue, etc, and I figured "enough is enough". I probably stayed too long. That home mission pastor's last words to me was, "It's mighty COLD out there, Brother .....". It was a lot colder in that church, believe me.
Over the years I've tried to fellowship UPC but with Very Limited exceptions have no response in kind.

Mirth, the best you can do is try to stay sweet, humble, and do what God is telling you to do. Might does not make right and numbers don't mean they have a "corner" on the truth. In some areas they need to grow (as do we all in some areas). It may mean a long time of limited fellowship (esp if you live in an area where Oneness churches are dominated by UPC). Hold ON to God's unchanging hand and walk with Him. He hasn't left you and just because you left the UPC doesn't mean YOU left HIM! Stay in prayer. Walk WITH your spouse (and I'm only assuming you are walking together) and hold one another UP and encourage one another in the Lord.

I posted a thread asking what it would take for apostolic unity and was serious about the question.

"Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand" Romans 14:4

Thank you for this post.

It is easy for some on here to judge myself and others that have decided to leave organizations, but only those that have been in this type of situation will truly understand. There are no excuses for those that abuse their positions in ministry.

[Sabby]

Originally Posted by onefaith2

The UPC is not the only organization that has truth. The apostolic church consists of many members! Many just happen to like to fellowship with either UPC or WPF.

,

not to mention: IMA, or AWCF, or ALJC, or ACN, or PAW, etc.