What do we do with the religious orgs and independent churches that don't force tithing money? Maybe we need to show them the error of their way. I nominate the richest religion in the world--> The Catholic church.
There are gifted people here on this forum. Start organizing or let's get a petition started about -- is tithing money a heaven or hell issue? Present it to the oneness orgs leadership. Once and for all let's get an answer!
I don't have a problem with people who want to give 10% of their income away. If they want to use 10% as a guideline, by all means do so. But it cannot be upheld as a NT practice, and certainly not even as an OT practice, because as Bro. Badejo already explained, giving in the NT had more to do with food and animals and very little to do with with money.
The problem that I see, and that Bro. Sean is trying to show, is that the "forced" giving of the 10% tithe is wrong. It is not a NT principle. You cannot find one single verse that refers to giving a tenth of your monetary income to the church or pastor. It is just not there, no matter how the scriptures are wrested with.
Paul definitely taught that the those who minister in the word be taken care of, but there never was a dollar amount assigned to that.
Paul also taught that the saints take care of other saints. He took an offering from the Gentile churches to Jerusalem where the saints were being persecuted there.
1 Cor. 16:1-3 Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye.
2 Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.
3 And when I come, whomsoever ye shall approve by your letters, them will I send to bring your liberality unto Jerusalem.
It is clear here that Paul had given an order for a collection to be taken up for the saints in Jerusalem. Paul was not collecting money for himself, but a collection to be given to the saints who were being persecuted. And, further he said upon the first day of the week, let every one of you lay by him in store, AS GOD HATH PROSPERED HIM that there would need to be no gatherings when he came. There is no mention here of a tenth percentage, but to lay aside as God has prospered you.
This is where those that enforce a standard 10% go wrong.... it should be taught that as the Lord blesses you, give generously to those in need, and to those who minister the word to you. If you want to use the tenth as a guideline, that is fine, but don't send people to hell, if they can't make the tenth.
For those of you who teach and try to enforce tithing as a heaven/hell issue... you can't find the word tithe in any of Paul, James, Peter, Jude or Timothy's writings. Giving... oh yes. Tithing... no. So to teach tithing as a heaven/hell issue... you are wrong.
Teach giving as the Lord has prospered you, as Paul did... and trust the Lord to take care of the rest.
I am not anti-ministry as those of you tithers have implied... not at all. Those who minister in the word should be taken care of with giving, and as Bro. Badejo said... those who are healthy, and can support themselves should not expect to receive anything from the saints. Paul worked and supported himself with tent making, and tried to never burden the saints unless he was desperate. Ministers should seek to do the same. If there is an older minister who can't work, but is laboring in the gospel and in the word, by all means, he should be helped by the saints with gifts of love.
If the false tithing teaching was taken from the mainstream churches... it is then I think the windows of heaven would be opened on the church, and revival such as we have never seen could break out. When a minister labors in love, and gives his life to the gospel, and lives by faith, His faith will bring forth mighty works simply because that is the principle by which the Lord blesses... a giving lifestyle... instead of one that expects a certain percentage to live a life of comfort and ease.
If the false tithing teaching was taken from the mainstream churches... it is then I think the windows of heaven would be opened on the church, and revival such as we have never seen could break out.
First of all Tithing is not a false teaching. We just don't need to add anything to the Bible other that what it says. I agree with all the arguments that all of the early church didn't tithe and none of the apostles taught it in scripture. It is in scripture, (so we should teach it), but as an example and not as a heaven or hell rule. Most apostolic churches seldom even teach on tithes.
We also have platform standards at our church about skirt lengths, necklines, etc.
I guess by the statements mentioned by other posts we should just teach modesty and never set a precedent of what it is to really be modest. Tithing is taught to give application to the principle of giving and very few have said you are going to hell if you don't.
I also feel that the main things holding back revival isn't tithing, it is things like faith, consecration, diligence, prayer, fasting, and most importantly Gods' will.
I agree with all the arguments that all of the early church didn't tithe
Where is that in the Bible? Just because the New Testament does not specifically talks mentions the tithe we can not simply assume that they did not tithe.
That is an argument from silence, and that is the worst type of argument.
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**Original Matthew 28:19 Restored**
But it cannot be upheld as a NT practice,...
It is not a NT principle. You cannot find one single verse that refers to giving a tenth of your monetary income to the church or pastor. It is just not there, no matter how the scriptures are wrested with.
All your arguments fall flat for the same reason, you are arguing from silence, the worst type of argument.
Just because the tithe is not mentioned specifically does not mean at all that they did not tithe.
Actually the tithe precedent was already established in the scriptures that they used. the early first Christians did not have any other scriptures but the Hebrew Scriptures. none of the books of the new testament had been written, until many years later after the church was founded.
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**Original Matthew 28:19 Restored**
Where is that in the Bible? Just because the New Testament does not specifically talks mentions the tithe we can not simply assume that they did not tithe.
That is an argument from silence, and that is the worst type of argument.
I didn't say none of the new testament tithed I said just "not all" The book of acts said they sold all they had and that isn't tithing. No doubt many of the Jewish converts would have tithed because of the OT teaching, but all I agree with is that it isn't explicitly taught in the NT of the Bible.
I agree with you it is silent and that means to me that you can't prove or disprove it taught in the NT. I gladly tithe, and would feel convicted not to. For those who disagree I hope they are following the leading of the Spirit in their hearts and are allowing God to guide their stance.
Last edited by good samaritan; 08-11-2014 at 02:30 PM.
Reason: grammer
All your arguments fall flat for the same reason, you are arguing from silence, the worst type of argument.
Just because the tithe is not mentioned specifically does not mean at all that they did not tithe.
Actually the tithe precedent was already established in the scriptures that they used. the early first Christians did not have any other scriptures but the Hebrew Scriptures. none of the books of the new testament had been written, until many years later after the church was founded.
Gentile Christians, at least, were not required to tithe, if we believe the Jerusalem Council is correct and authoritative:
Acts 15:28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
All your arguments fall flat for the same reason, you are arguing from silence, the worst type of argument.
Just because the tithe is not mentioned specifically does not mean at all that they did not tithe.
Actually the tithe precedent was already established in the scriptures that they used. the early first Christians did not have any other scriptures but the Hebrew Scriptures. none of the books of the new testament had been written, until many years later after the church was founded.
The Gentile churches had mass copies made of the Epistles as soon as they were delivered. The thousands of copies of Greek manuscripts that have been collected are evidence of a system of copying them. Scribes were a form of the printing press for all faiths of those days, including the Jewish faith and governmental authorities. The Gentile churches had greater access to the Epistles because they were the actual letters of the very Apostles that won them to Jesus. They did not hand a copy of the Septuagint(O.T.) to the newly formed Gentile/Greek churches and say..."here ya go, its your new belief system"...LOL
However, the book of Galatians is evidence enough that the Gentiles had deceiving Judaiser Christians coming and demanding the Churches keep the law. Paul blasted them for this and CURSED these brethren for their heresies...I will prove to you that tithing was of the Law, just like Circumcision was.
The Jewish Christians of the day were not allowed to impose the Law on the Gentiles. If the Jewish Christians practiced tithing at all, with no scriptural evidence that they did, they would have given it to the priests of the Temple. (until it was destroyed in 70ad)
Also, good thing you brought this up....The scripture tells us that circumcision was commanded BEFORE the Law and abolished in the N.T.
It also shows us that tithing was also adopted into the Law.....Hebrews 7:5
5 And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham:
.... and also abolished(disannulled). Hebrews 7:18-19
18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.
19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.
Between verse 5 and verse 18 the word tithe or tenth appears 7 times. It concludes with its disannulment as the subject matter itself.
If you can still draw a conclusion that the early church practiced a "hidden" tithing system, it flies in the face of these passages.
Gentile Christians, at least, were not required to tithe, if we believe the Jerusalem Council is correct and authoritative:
Acts 15:28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.
Interesting there, the first list of standards? I wonder how long into church age they were supposed to last? Seems many non-religious americans today observe the four items without even trying, or at least three out of the four. So does that mean we are "Doing well" after all, Timmy?
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