How close should a pastor get to the members?

[2020Vision]

Originally Posted by aak1972

Im only using these examples to make a point. All pastors have some line they will not cross when it comes to counseling and it varies with the pastor. My uncle has pastored the same church for 31 years and he will not counsel on personal matters.

What is a personal matter? Do we compartmentalize our spirituality into a tidy little drawer, or is it the foundation underlying ALL things: personal, financial, spiritual, interpersonal - our WHOLE being?

I'm not against secular counseling, but I think the church is sufficient enough where there is plenty of wisdom to gain by pastors and elders in our churches. There is nothing new under the sun.

[Rhoni]

Originally Posted by 2020Vision

Would you believe that most cases of depression stem from sin. That is, "missing the mark"? I've talked to Apostolics who hold Doctoral and Masters degrees in this field, as well as some that have many years experience counseling people, and many agree that, at least MOST of the time, the issue truly is sin, or somewhere the person knows to do right but doesn't do it.

Regarding the vehicle. A wise pastor will lend general advice and maybe even give advice regarding a particular matter, but advice is just that, advice. It's not pastoral direction, a command in lieu of Scripture, etc. The Body of Christ has enough talented and dedicated man that one could get wise counsel with the Biblical worldview in mind.

I guess we Christian counselors would say that but the politically correct way to say it is that a client has depression when they go against their perssonal value system.

Blessings, Rhoni

[RandyWayne]

Originally Posted by aak1972 View Post
The pastors I know of have no formal training in counseling. There is a degree of tact that needs to be taken with anyone in a life altering situation. We dont need to go to someone and confide in them only to be blasted about sin in our life. Another example; if you were thinking about buying a new family vehicle and you asked you pastor for counsel on the matter and he told you to buy the 2009 Expedition. You do and 6 months later the thing turns out to be a lemon. Who will you blame? You know you will its human nature.

Would you believe that most cases of depression stem from sin. That is, "missing the mark"? I've talked to Apostolics who hold Doctoral and Masters degrees in this field, as well as some that have many years experience counseling people, and many agree that, at least MOST of the time, the issue truly is sin, or somewhere the person knows to do right but doesn't do it.

Regarding the vehicle. A wise pastor will lend general advice and maybe even give advice regarding a particular matter, but advice is just that, advice. It's not pastoral direction, a command in lieu of Scripture, etc. The Body of Christ has enough talented and dedicated man that one could get wise counsel with the Biblical worldview in mind.

I understand fully what he is saying.
Take the example of someone who loses a child/spouse. The last thing the grieving parent/spouse needs to hear is that it was somehow their fault for their loss -their "faith wasn't strong enough". I have seen or heard of this sort of advice given far too often. Or, to tie this into the magic hair thread, what about the pastor who proclaims misfortune the result of a wife's lovely locks being "shorn"?

[Rhoni]

Originally Posted by 2020Vision

What is a personal matter? Do we compartmentalize our spirituality into a tidy little drawer, or is it the foundation underlying ALL things: personal, financial, spiritual, interpersonal - our WHOLE being?

I'm not against secular counseling, but I think the church is sufficient enough where there is plenty of wisdom to gain by pastors and elders in our churches. There is nothing new under the sun.

The church is not sufficient enough...that is why I went into counseling. Preachers/pastors/elders are not all in all...some have wisdom, some have knowledge; but Christ tells us in the New Testament to pray for understanding to go with knowledge and wisdom. This is much more important.

[Amos]

Originally Posted by Rhoni

The church is not sufficient enough...that is why I went into counseling. Preachers/pastors/elders are not all in all...some have wisdom, some have knowledge; but Christ tells us in the New Testament to pray for understanding tp go with knowledge and wisdom. This is much more important.

wow

[Michael Phelps]

Originally Posted by Amos

wow

Ditto......

[Ron]

Okay, I am going to pull the pin & throw the Holy Hand Grenade & let come what may.

95% of what we struggle with would be solved by "forgiving" & "letting go" of hurts, offenses, disappointments, etc!

The problem isn't other people, but we ourselves have the power & the will to do for us what no one else can do.

[RandyWayne]

"1..... 2...... 5......"

"3 Sir!"

"3!"

BAM!

[Amos]

Originally Posted by Ron

Okay, I am going to pull the pin & throw the Holy Hand Grenade & let come what may.

95% of what we struggle with would be solved by "forgiving" & "letting go" of hurts, offenses, disappointments, etc!

The problem isn't other people, but we ourselves have the power & the will to do for us what no one else can do.

Bullseye.

Unforgiveness is the cause of almost everything the counselors propose to deal with.

[RandyWayne]

Originally Posted by Amos

Bullseye.

Unforgiveness is the cause of almost everything the counselors propose to deal with.

Possibly, but forgiving AND forgetting are two very different things.

"Fool me one, shame on you.... fool me twice, shame on me" is an internal motto that nearly everyone lives by to one degree or another. When anyone suffers spiritual abuse of any kind the last thing someone wants is to fall right back into the same situation, and so we become ultra critical in many cases when it comes to trusting again. I grew up the same way -granted I was never married to a pastor, but I had one who felt he was the father figure over his sheep and acted with all the pomp and pageantry he could muster during a typical church service. Since I was living with my folks at the time as a young teen I had no say in anything.... now I am an adult I have a LOT of say in how I let myself be "led".

Have I forgiven him? Of course I have. In fact, if I met him again I can see having a very enjoyable evening together. I have even heard he has changed A LOT during the past 20 years.
But the experience has taught me valuable lessons as well as leaving some deep scars.