Witchcraft = medication

[Ferd]

Originally Posted by tbpew

Ferd,
I am completely confident that God is merciful, patient and kind. He is not waiting to punish us for our various attempts at managing the circumstances that we find ourselves in.

We are on safe ground as long as we can discern when we are participating in a man-system OR a God-system.

My lament, is when we mix the two.

I often give thanks to God for the successful administration of many systems that are fully man-made. I am thanking him for something that he coded into the mind and heart of his creature....and the creature has acted upon these God-sourced prompts.

then I dont think we are too far from each other.... i agree with the above.

I do believe that there are times when mans systems and Gods blend.

I firmly believe God in the final analysis healed my little boy. I believe that because the Doctor was quite astonished when his heart rythem issue cleared up well ahead of any hoped for schedual.

but at the same time, there were months of a regimen of giving the little guy serious medication.

But Ive never said I thank God that God gave my little boy amnioterone.... Dr. Case did that..... God did put this particular doctor in our path.... I am firmly convinced of that.

Originally Posted by tbpew

O.M.
I am not immediately sure if our participation in this topic is motivated by the same prompts.

Any honest-hearted person who has been a part of 'apostolic' assemblies for 3 years or more, has seen VERY LITTLE evidence (signs) that God is consistently a healer.

It seems likely (to me) that many of us have either received a discernable healing or supernatural deliverance or are well acquainted with someone who has.

Despite the awareness that this kind of GOOD NEWS is present in our assemblies, the normal sequence of events involving disease (among those who claim to be of the assembly of the saints) involving symptoms that are treatable by a man-made approach, the course of action that normally is found to help is the man-made one.

I do NOT fault people for following their confidence. To act contrary to your confidence is foolishness.

I do not blame specific persons or offices for the sarscity of God's healing being manifested in our community that claims fellowship in God's spirit.

This area is just a troubling, sad vacancy between what we see in scripture and what we experience in our assemblies.

Amen Brother!!! I can't speak for others, but I don't accept illnesses and I go to God in prayer for healing when I do get sick. I guess it is hard to explain because this is something that I have always done, even before I was born-again. My son does not take drugs because he knows that it alters the mind/body and he wholeheartily believes in prayer for healing. I didn't teach him this and I believe that he is this way because of his walk with God. I have tried to get him to take something when he wasn't feeling good, but he refused. No one can blame him for how he feels on the subject.

I don't fault people for having to take drugs to keep an illness under control, but what I don't like about this is that people don't like what the Bible says about it in Galatians 5:20. They make a big deal about it and that is the sad part, but what is sadder than that is how many Apostolics have to rely on drugs to stay alive.

[Rico]

Originally Posted by Ferd

then I dont think we are too far from each other.... i agree with the above.

I do believe that there are times when mans systems and Gods blend.

I firmly believe God in the final analysis healed my little boy. I believe that because the Doctor was quite astonished when his heart rythem issue cleared up well ahead of any hoped for schedual.

but at the same time, there were months of a regimen of giving the little guy serious medication.

But Ive never said I thank God that God gave my little boy amnioterone.... Dr. Case did that..... God did put this particular doctor in our path.... I am firmly convinced of that.

Brother, this is what has me confused. You seem to be saying this medicine kept your boy alive until God healed him. That doesn't compute in my mind. If it were God's intention to heal your son (which I believe it was, based on your testimony of Him doing so), then I don't think for a minute He needed the help of amnioterone to keep him alive until the appointed time for a healing.

Originally Posted by Rico

Brother, this is what has me confused. You seem to be saying this medicine kept your boy alive until God healed him. That doesn't compute in my mind. If it were God's intention to heal your son (which I believe it was, based on your testimony of Him doing so), then I don't think for a minute He needed the help of amnioterone to keep him alive until the appointed time for a healing.

Amen Brother!!! God is a healer and sometimes it takes a little longer for a person to be completely healed.

Gen 20:17 So Abraham85 prayed6419 unto413 God:430 and God430 healed7495 (853) Abimelech,40 and his wife,802 and his maidservants;519 and they bore3205 children.

Exo 21:19 If518 he rise again,6965 and walk1980 abroad2351 upon5921 his staff,4938 then shall he that smote5221 him be quit:5352 only7535 he shall pay5414 for the loss of his time,7674 and shall cause him to be thoroughly healed.

2Ch 30:20 And the LORD3068 hearkened8085 to413 Hezekiah,3169 and healed7495 (853) the people.

Mat 8:8 (2532) The3588 centurion1543 answered611 and said,5346 Lord,2962 I am1510 not3756 worthy2425 that2443 thou shouldest come1525 under5259 my3450 roof:4721 but235 speak2036 the word3056 only,3440 and2532 my3450 servant3816 shall be healed.

Mat 8:13 And2532 Jesus2424 said2036 unto the3588 centurion,1543 Go thy way;5217 and2532 as5613 thou hast believed,4100 so be it done1096 unto thee. And4671 2532 his846 servant3816 was healed2390 in1722 the selfsame1565 hour.

Mar 1:34 And2532 he healed2323 many4183 that were sick2192, 2560 of divers4164 diseases,3554 and2532 cast out1544 many4183 devils;1140 and2532 suffered863 not3756 the3588 devils1140 to speak,2980 because3754 they knew1492 him.

Mar 5:23 And2532 besought3870 him846 greatly,4183 saying,3004 My3450 little daughter2365 lieth at the point of death:2192, 2079 I pray(2443) thee, come2064 and lay2007 thy hands5495 on her,846 that3704 she may be healed;4982 and2532 she shall live.

Luk 4:40 Now1161 when the3588 sun2246 was setting,1416 all3956 they3745 that had2192 any sick770 with divers4164 diseases3554 brought71 them846 unto4314 him;846 and1161 he3588 laid his hands on2007, 5495 every1538 one1520 of them,846 and healed2323 them.

Luk 5:15 But1161 so much the more3123 went there a fame abroad1330, 3056 of4012 him:846 and2532 great4183 multitudes3793 came together4905 to hear,191 and2532 to be healed2323 by5259 him846 of575 their848 infirmities.

Act 3:11 And1161 as the3588 lame man5560 which was healed2390 held2902 Peter4074 and2532 John,2491 all3956 the3588 people2992 ran together4936 unto4314 them846 in1909 the3588 porch4745 that is called2564 Solomon's,4672 greatly wondering.

Act 5:16 (1161) There came4905 also2532 a multitude4128 out of the3588 cities4172 round about4038 unto1519 Jerusalem,2419 bringing5342 sick folks,772 and2532 them which were vexed3791 with5259 unclean169 spirits:4151 and they3748 were healed2323 every one.

Act 8:7 For1063 unclean169 spirits,4151 crying994 with loud3173 voice,5456 came out1831 of many4183 that were possessed2192 with them: and1161 many4183 taken with palsies,3886 and2532 that were lame,5560 were healed.

If Jesus is the same yesterday, today, and forever, then why aren't more people healed like they were in the Bible? Now, this is something that I really don't understand.

[Ferd]

Originally Posted by Rico

Brother, this is what has me confused. You seem to be saying this medicine kept your boy alive until God healed him. That doesn't compute in my mind. If it were God's intention to heal your son (which I believe it was, based on your testimony of Him doing so), then I don't think for a minute He needed the help of amnioterone to keep him alive until the appointed time for a healing.

Rico, there are two things I am sure arent my job. Understanding God and keeping you from being confused.

but its all good.

[Rico]

OM, I don't pretend to know all the answers on this issue. I will, however, say that there is a fine line between trusting God and not trusting God when it comes to the use of medicine, in my opinion. It's easy to boldly proclaim that God doesn't need the help of medicine. It's not so easy to actually live that belief out when faced with life threatening illness. Thank God that His grace is sufficient to carry us through, regardless of which direction we take when it's our turn to face that fork in the road.

[Rico]

Originally Posted by Ferd

Rico, there are two things I am sure arent my job. Understanding God and keeping you from being confused.

but its all good.

Ya know, Ferd, I am going to tell you the same thing I told TRFrance last night. I am getting sick to death of discussing things with you when you feel the need to throw some insults into the conversation all the time.

Originally Posted by Rico

OM, I don't pretend to know all the answers on this issue. I will, however, say that there is a fine line between trusting God and not trusting God when it comes to the use of medicine, in my opinion. It's easy to boldly proclaim that God doesn't need the help of medicine. It's not so easy to actually live that belief out when faced with life threatening illness. Thank God that His grace is sufficient to carry us through, regardless of which direction we take when it's our turn to face that fork in the road.

I know and that is why people aren't being healed like they were in the Bible.

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by Rico

Ya know, Ferd, I am going to tell you the same thing I told TRFrance last night. I am getting sick to death of discussing things with you when you feel the need to throw some insults into the conversation all the time.

Perhaps someone on this thread should have enough sense to realize that this is a sensitive topic for some people. Ferd's little boy was born premature. I really hope NO ONE on this thread would advocate removing that baby from the hospital, from the NICU, from his necessary INCUBATOR, and taking him home, away from all the [evil] medicine (pharmaceuticals).

Jeffrey was born premature as well. He had to receive immediate help with breathing, among other things.

So here's a question for you--if God wanted to heal Jeffrey, why didn't He do it BEFORE he needed to have a tube stuck down his throat? Do you think we waited until after he was in the NICU to start praying?

I assure you, I believe God is a healer, but He often does NOT heal us. Why? Is it because I, as a parent, am unwilling to put my children in imminent danger in order to test my faith?

[Rico]

Originally Posted by Oneness Man

I know and that is why people aren't being healed like they were in the Bible.

Brother, I think people are getting healed the way they were in the Bible. Maybe not like they were when Jesus walked the Earth as a man, but people receive healings these days. I know He has healed my back.