No Limits Conference Speakers?

[Dan'D]

Originally Posted by A_PoMo

I apologize if I seem overly critical of NW's sermon last night. But this morning I was thinking about it a little and I just cannot escape the real disappointment I feel about his sermon. Having never heard him preach before and based on his reputation as a learned, intelligent man I was deeply disappointed in how shallow and parochial it was and essentially wrong his message was on the facts. I felt it was intellectually dishonest in that it misconstrued the truth of various matters and that essentially it was a message of elitism. Most evangelicals and even mainline denom people would agree with him about being led by the Spirit, hearing from God, and combining your cognitive understanding of doctrine with a spiritual experience and for him to say otherwise is unbelievably irresponsible. Dare I say untruthful as well? By his definition, even with the part about speaking in tongues being essential for salvation, all charasmatic believers are 'apostolic'. I happen to agree w/that view myself, but I'm sure he would be appalled to have someone characterize his position in that way. But that's how imprecise and wrong his message was and I expected more from him especially considering the gravity of the circumstances and knowing that many eyes are watching. I feel that his preparation was sloppy at best and just plain deceitful in aim at worst. I completely agree that Christians ought to be led by the spirit and that the Christian experience is primarily a spiritual one and I think most evangelicals would agree with that even if their way of doing that is different that NW's. I felt the sermon and his attitude in presenting it was arrogant and elitist. I guess I shouldn't be surprised, but nonetheless for some reason I am a little disheartened by it and feel a little let down.

Reading some of your other posting we would not had expected anything else.
Dan'D

[A_PoMo]

Originally Posted by Dan'D

Reading some of your other posting we would not had expected anything else.
Dan'D

[SOUNWORTHY]

Originally Posted by A_PoMo

out of respect for them. I felt really weird having people hover like that.

Regarding the sermon. I listened to NHaney's message this morning on "Faith in the Word of God" in their website. Now I'm no fan of NH but it was a good sermon even though I thought the pulpit was GINORMOUS (at least as big as Jakes) and was surprised to see only about 300 people attending the service. Must have been a Wed night.

I have known NH all his life and even though I was away from UPCI for 17 years and just returned. I have found Nathaniel to be very compassionate and very unconventional. He is not swayed by fame nor fortune. He is very much like his grandfather.CLC is a very friendly church. Much more so than it was when I left in 1990. the attendance is greater now than it has ever been. You might remember NH in prayer, he is a very sick man. He sometimes is not able to attend services. Yes, the platform is big, it's as big as the auditorium of the church I pastored before I got smart.

[CC1]

Originally Posted by SOUNWORTHY

I have known NH all his life and even though I was away from UPCI for 17 years and just returned. I have found Nathaniel to be very compassionate and very unconventional. He is not swayed by fame nor fortune. He is very much like his grandfather.CLC is a very friendly church. Much more so than it was when I left in 1990. the attendance is greater now than it has ever been. You might remember NH in prayer, he is a very sick man. He sometimes is not able to attend services. Yes, the platform is big, it's as big as the auditorium of the church I pastored before I got smart.

You can tell NH is an unconventional man just by looking at those vests he wears! Either unconventional or just impatient as he apparently just could not wait for them to come back into style. LOL!!!

[George]

Originally Posted by SOUNWORTHY

I was also disappointed but not surprised . I have known NW for many years but as far as I can remember I had never heard him preach. I remarked to my wife that he looked and sounded angry. As red faced as he appeared it's surprising he doesn't have a heart attack. I felt no compassion or love in his expression or tone.

And what is this thing about cadets? I missed that post.

The cadets not only serve them at church, but at every function in their home. From what I heard, even the family Christmas party at NW's house had cadets running everything.

[KarenJo]

Originally Posted by SOUNWORTHY

I have known NH all his life and even though I was away from UPCI for 17 years and just returned. I have found Nathaniel to be very compassionate and very unconventional. He is not swayed by fame nor fortune. He is very much like his grandfather.CLC is a very friendly church. Much more so than it was when I left in 1990. the attendance is greater now than it has ever been. You might remember NH in prayer, he is a very sick man. He sometimes is not able to attend services. Yes, the platform is big, it's as big as the auditorium of the church I pastored before I got smart.

The thing that I like about NH is that he has a real hunger for the things of God. He is very much like his grandfathers both Haney and McDonald. He is nice guy and really has a heart for God. His illness goes back to when he was my youth pastor. He was fasting so much and at times wasn't doing the best way. It did some damage and does cause him a lot of trouble.

Hey, MM do you remember his red cowboy boots.....

[A_PoMo]

Originally Posted by SOUNWORTHY

I have known NH all his life and even though I was away from UPCI for 17 years and just returned. I have found Nathaniel to be very compassionate and very unconventional. He is not swayed by fame nor fortune. He is very much like his grandfather.CLC is a very friendly church. Much more so than it was when I left in 1990. the attendance is greater now than it has ever been. You might remember NH in prayer, he is a very sick man. He sometimes is not able to attend services. Yes, the platform is big, it's as big as the auditorium of the church I pastored before I got smart.

I guess NH is a compassionate and nice guy and has a hunger for the Lord. That's all good. He certainly has toned down the whole NT Elijah thing thing he had going there when he was younger. I do appreciate his more measured and toned down approach to communicating. And like I said, I thought the message I heard earlier today was good and helpful and inspirational.

But Karen brings up a good point and it's one that concerns me about him and people that believe many of the things he believes. It's not so much how he says stuff that is the issue as much as what he says at times that causes problems for people. Words mean something and even if you say something with compassion and gentleness it can still be harmful if it's not true and it damages peoples relationship with God. The real problem is some of the wrong theology that he believes. Case in point, what Karen said about his fasting. He believed wrong things about fasting and I remember he would put alot of pressure on people to be like him in that regard and he was held up as the paragon of spirituality by alot of people and wannabe prophets. But he was wrong and even though his intentions were pure he hurt himself, his family, and I would say his church because of something he believed that was wrong.

I remember once he said this from the pulpit, "I just cannot see how it is possible that anyone who owns a television is going to heaven." He said it very compassionately, emotion in his voice, kindly, gently, etc... he wasn't screaming and spitting and all that. It was very sweet. But very deadly in that it is dead wrong and had the very real potential to distort people's understanding of God and holiness (which is an attribute of God) and put a load of false guilt and condemnation on people that happen to own televisions and took his word as truth. Words matter because they mean something. Even if you're compassionate and kind in how you say it the end result can be a damaged person who lives under false guilt due to bad theology. When you teach bad theology you're exchanging the truth for something else and that's never a good thing. True, we can survive these sorts of theological toxins in our souls and any one of them won't kill you. But it's the accumulation of many small untruths that can have a deliterious effect on people and they end up dying a spiritual death of a thousand spiritual cuts or they're walking around as spiritually walking wounded bleeding all over the place and their spiritual growth is severely hampered and stunted. It's as abusive and damaging as emotional and verbal abuse to children and spouses.

I remember another incident where JHaney taught one of my new converts classes. She told the ladies that pants were associated with prostitution and thus were an abomination to God. She was very "kind" in how she said it. But that didn't matte because words mean something. One of the new convert ladies got up and ran out of the room crying. I chased her to her car trying to console her and she refused to talk and never came back to church again no matter how hard I tried. In her mind she's a whore in the eyes of God.

That's the problem I have with NW's sermon and with some of the stuff I hear NH and others say. The untruth of what they say creates, over time, a seriously distorted picture of God and this in turn leads to alot of other bad stuff. Case in point, the Lord put me in the same insurance office as the boss of a girl who used to attend NW's church. The things she was told and internalized devestated her and created basket case. She would literally shake with fear when we'd drive by NW's church. She lived in literal fear of God. She wanted to go to NW's church but had been kicked out for what I feel was a relatively minor offense. She didn't feel she could go to any other church because they didn't 'have the truth'. She felt, due to the bad teaching she'd been taught, that God had rejected her and sincerely felt that she was reprobate and beyond forgiveness. It took me a long time to get through to her and she finally came to church w/me a couple of times. I could tell other stories but I'm sure alot of ya'll mad enough at me.

[mizpeh]

Pomo,

I can understand your concerns about "holiness standards" and false teaching. And I agree with you to a certain extent. But I find it just as harmful to teach water baptism does not wash away/remit sins or that a person has received the Spirit of Christ without the initial evidence of speaking in other tongues. In which case a person is living under the illusion that they are saved when they are not even born again.

[A_PoMo]

It sounds like you're agreeing w/me. Better be careful, you might get dirty.

[NW Pastor]

Originally Posted by A_PoMo

I guess NH is a compassionate and nice guy and has a hunger for the Lord. That's all good. He certainly has toned down the whole NT Elijah thing thing he had going there when he was younger. I do appreciate his more measured and toned down approach to communicating. And like I said, I thought the message I heard earlier today was good and helpful and inspirational.

But Karen brings up a good point and it's one that concerns me about him and people that believe many of the things he believes. It's not so much how he says stuff that is the issue as much as what he says at times that causes problems for people. Words mean something and even if you say something with compassion and gentleness it can still be harmful if it's not true and it damages peoples relationship with God. The real problem is some of the wrong theology that he believes. Case in point, what Karen said about his fasting. He believed wrong things about fasting and I remember he would put alot of pressure on people to be like him in that regard and he was held up as the paragon of spirituality by alot of people and wannabe prophets. But he was wrong and even though his intentions were pure he hurt himself, his family, and I would say his church because of something he believed that was wrong.

I remember once he said this from the pulpit, "I just cannot see how it is possible that anyone who owns a television is going to heaven." He said it very compassionately, emotion in his voice, kindly, gently, etc... he wasn't screaming and spitting and all that. It was very sweet. But very deadly in that it is dead wrong and had the very real potential to distort people's understanding of God and holiness (which is an attribute of God) and put a load of false guilt and condemnation on people that happen to own televisions and took his word as truth. Words matter because they mean something. Even if you're compassionate and kind in how you say it the end result can be a damaged person who lives under false guilt due to bad theology. When you teach bad theology you're exchanging the truth for something else and that's never a good thing. True, we can survive these sorts of theological toxins in our souls and any one of them won't kill you. But it's the accumulation of many small untruths that can have a deliterious effect on people and they end up dying a spiritual death of a thousand spiritual cuts or they're walking around as spiritually walking wounded bleeding all over the place and their spiritual growth is severely hampered and stunted. It's as abusive and damaging as emotional and verbal abuse to children and spouses.

I remember another incident where JHaney taught one of my new converts classes. She told the ladies that pants were associated with prostitution and thus were an abomination to God. She was very "kind" in how she said it. But that didn't matte because words mean something. One of the new convert ladies got up and ran out of the room crying. I chased her to her car trying to console her and she refused to talk and never came back to church again no matter how hard I tried. In her mind she's a whore in the eyes of God.

That's the problem I have with NW's sermon and with some of the stuff I hear NH and others say. The untruth of what they say creates, over time, a seriously distorted picture of God and this in turn leads to alot of other bad stuff. Case in point, the Lord put me in the same insurance office as the boss of a girl who used to attend NW's church. The things she was told and internalized devestated her and created basket case. She would literally shake with fear when we'd drive by NW's church. She lived in literal fear of God. She wanted to go to NW's church but had been kicked out for what I feel was a relatively minor offense. She didn't feel she could go to any other church because they didn't 'have the truth'. She felt, due to the bad teaching she'd been taught, that God had rejected her and sincerely felt that she was reprobate and beyond forgiveness. It took me a long time to get through to her and she finally came to church w/me a couple of times. I could tell other stories but I'm sure alot of ya'll mad enough at me.

Nobody has been "kicked out" of NW's church for a relatively minor offence. He may have faults, but a lack of longsuffering toward those seeking God is not one of them.