There Has Been A Change

[chaotic_resolve]

Originally Posted by Trouvere

You know Dan forgive me I have only been in the ministry for twenty three years so I cannot top your thirty six due to the fact that you are probably way older than I am.Maybe if you felt to rebuke an elder you could have done it in a pm.
The way you did it was classless or maybe since you wanted to be so formal how about a phone call to his pastor? But no you wanted to exercise your big gun.I am not impressed.You did not possess a humble brotherly spirit whatsoever.

I doubt Dan's intent was to impress anyone. His friend was being openly attacked in a public forum by a man who claims to be a spiritual elder and over all others in the area of discernment.

This man railed against the elders he so carefully looked into the faces of - and ridiculed them for not having the guts to confront the so-called false prophet and his Wisdom Center teachings.

Yet at the same time, he states that he himself was near this alleged false prophet . . . but he didn't say whether or not he himself had the guts to, if nothing else, at lease express the same sentiments to this man personally as he did behind his back in a public forum. I could be wrong. I hope I am wrong. But unfortunately I've had too many experiences with the likes of him to know that he won't do it.

I'd do the same thing if my friend was attacked in a public open forum. There's nothing wrong with an open rebuke against someone who's making false charges against a friend, or any other person for that matter.

[nwlife]

Bro. Dan, While I am grateful to see someone stick up for their friend, still sometimes a friend's eyes are blinded because of their love for their friend, and then sometimes a friend is the only one who can really see what is going on.

While you defend your friend, keep at least double checking a time or two over time to see if what Bro. Strange has mentioned to see if there be any merit at all to what he has said.
I know I have sensed similar things before and did not speak when I should have, then other times I have read the situation wrong/incorrectly and spoke when I should have been quiet.

BUt as others have said, only time will tell what the actual truth is.
Now I bow out.
Shalom.

Originally Posted by crakjak

I said nothing of the 'prosperity gospel' nor did I mention charismatics, nor am I one.

Yes, He became poor that we could become rich! Rich is more than wealth, yet it includes wealth. Abraham was very rich, Moses and the Israeli carried the wealth of Egypt out with them. Believe me being poor is a condition that should be healed by the gospel.
"Give, and it will be given to you. A good measure, pressed down, shaken together and running over, will be poured into your lap. For with the measure you use, it will be measured to you."

Dr. Luke believed in being rich, and I agree with him. Read that last part carefully, the secret of wealth is contained in it. "...with the measure you use...."

Too bad for the apostle Paul, he never did have his status 'healed' by the gospel; indeed, his circumstances were a result of believing and preaching the gospel.

I Corinthians 4:8-14
Now ye are full, now ye are rich, ye have reigned as kings without us: and I would to God ye did reign, that we also might reign with you.
For I think that God hath set forth us the apostles last, as it were appointed to death: for we are made a spectacle unto the world, and to angels, and to men.
We are fools for Christ's sake, but ye are wise in Christ; we are weak, but ye are strong; ye are honourable, but we are despised.
Even unto this present hour we both hunger, and thirst, and are naked, and are buffeted, and have no certain dwellingplace;And labour, working with our own hands: being reviled, we bless; being persecuted, we suffer it:
Being defamed, we intreat: we are made as the filth of the world, and are the offscouring of all things unto this day.
I write not these things to shame you, but as my beloved sons I warn you.

II Corinthians 11:27
In weariness and painfulness, in watchings often, in hunger and thirst, in fastings often, in cold and nakedness.

And, Jesus Himself said He didn't even have a place to lay his head (see Matthew 8:20, Luke 9:58)

And the writer of Hebrews, in listing those unnamed heroes of faith in Hebrews 11, described them this way:

They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented;
(Of whom the world was not worthy) they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth.

[Rico]

Originally Posted by crakjak

[/B]


You got to get rid of that poor attitude, read your words again. Your words are full of doubt and unbelief. We are created in the image of God, how did God create? With His words, until your words change your condition will not change. The Word says that you can have what you say, you are saying what you have, therefore you have what you say. It is not magic it is simply fact. You will never find a poor mouthed rich man, unless he inherited it, then he will blow it all.

Crak, not trying to be rude, but I don't have a poor attitude. Just simply stating facts. The job market around here doesn't produce good paying jobs. We live in government housing and are driving 20 year old clunkers. I recently got fed up with being fed up and starting doing something about it, namely, I am in college now. Once I get this degree I can find a decent paying job, get out of this goverment housing, and get on with life. Until then, things are the way they are, Bro. I've already prayed down my answer, just waiting for it to come to pass.

Rico - I think that is awesome... there is nothing wrong with being realistic. I find that I imagine the worst possible scenario/outcome for everything and it just makes me prepared for it... I'm actually doing quite well, and I believe that the fact that I anticipate things going wrong well in advance means that I end up having a plan in place if/when they do, and that has made me more successful financially. I'm not rich by any means, but I do make more than I ever possibly imagined. Growing up in the church in the South, the only people who made decent money were loggers or people who otherwise owned their own business.

I realize that this is different in different areas but I am continually amazed at the amount of Pentecostals who have jobs which require education and training... because that was NOT my experience growing up in OK, TX and KS in the church. So in a way, these forums have helped me to start breaking a stereotype which I have always held (just by hearing about Pentecostals being lawyers and having 5000 square foot houses, etc.)

I was told by another pastor's kid that I would still be driving my dad's beat up '77 Chevy van when I was 30. I've devoted my life into proving him wrong.

[Trouvere]

Originally Posted by chaotic_resolve

I doubt Dan's intent was to impress anyone. His friend was being openly attacked in a public forum by a man who claims to be a spiritual elder and over all others in the area of discernment.

This man railed against the elders he so carefully looked into the faces of - and ridiculed them for not having the guts to confront the so-called false prophet and his Wisdom Center teachings.

Yet at the same time, he states that he himself was near this alleged false prophet . . . but he didn't say whether or not he himself had the guts to, if nothing else, at lease express the same sentiments to this man personally as he did behind his back in a public forum. I could be wrong. I hope I am wrong. But unfortunately I've had too many experiences with the likes of him to know that he won't do it.

I'd do the same thing if my friend was attacked in a public open forum. There's nothing wrong with an open rebuke against someone who's making false charges against a friend, or any other person for that matter.

BTW this forum is not public.We are members.Sorry but I disagree.The elder has a right to his opinion and is very grieved.I doubt strife is the answer but maybe prayer and getting on your knees and asking God if maybe this elder who has laid hands on the dead and seen them raised to lifes opinion is important.I don't know maybe its something to consider instead of condemn.

[Maple Leaf]

Originally Posted by Dan

Well Trouvere, I was at that service, were you? I have been a licensed minister for 36 years and have pastored for 32. I am not rebuking an Elder. If he is a true eder...he would not attack another preacher here, but he would go to him personally. He had the nerve to talk about another minister on the forum and I have every right to state my opinion. As for your opinion, you have a right to that but that does not make you right. In my opinion MB is a great evangelist and has been used mightily of God. As a matter of fact he praeched in our church a few weeks ago and we had 20 people recieve the Holy Ghost. I felt like I needed to speak up for MB. He is my friend and I did not appreciate the insinuations made in the very first post. I still believe it was of God!

Yup!

[Trouvere]

Originally Posted by Maple Leaf

Yup!

oh thats deep

[nwlife]

Originally Posted by Trouvere

BTW this forum is not public.We are members.Sorry but I disagree.The elder has a right to his opinion and is very grieved.I doubt strife is the answer but maybe prayer and getting on your knees and asking God if maybe this elder who has laid hands on the dead and seen them raised to lifes opinion is important.I don't know maybe its something to consider instead of condemn.

Actually this forum is public in that one does not have to be signed in to read these posts, many times I never log in, but am reading the threads!

[Trouvere]

Originally Posted by nwlife

Actually this forum is public in that one does not have to be signed in to read these posts, many times I never log in, but am reading the threads!

Yes it can be read but you do have to join.What I am getting at is that Brother Strange is among friends here.He can voice his opinion without being condemned can he not? Or is it that talebearers run and flame up trouble
because they don't like what someone is going through or feeling over something? I am sure MB can take it.It just may make him think abit.
If everyone always extols your virtues do you really know where you stand?
I think not.The best friends are those who make you pray and make you
think not the ones who always agree with you.




Pro 13:18 Poverty and shame [shall be to] him that refuseth instruction: but he that regardeth reproof shall be honoured.




Pro 27:5 Open rebuke [is] better than secret love.




Ecc 7:5 [It is] better to hear the rebuke of the wise, than for a man to hear the song of fools.