John3 and Romans2: Part2

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by donfriesen1

TO BE CONTINUED...

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WHY?

Sadly, you don't believe the Gospel. You been in religion so long you don't know which way is up. Don, go pray. Go to the prayer room. have a little talk with Jesus, empty your heart out to Him. He'll tell you that what you are trying to ram down our throats isn't Bible. If you start speaking in tongues while praying, don't stop yourself. Keep doing it until you get the revelation that you would want everyone to speak in tongues. Wouldn't you want everyone to be baptized in Jesus name? Pray Don, that God gather in all the sincere souls, devout men and women. Those whose alms have come up before God as a memorial. Pray Don, that all would come to know Jesus and the power of His Truth.

[donfriesen1]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

post 445

...CONTINUED FROM post 447

If there was no law, then how could Pharaoh Genesis 12:10-20, and Abimelech Genesis 20:1-18 have God judging them for adultery? Oh, boy. You've opened a can of worms, Dom. The story shows God judging Abimelech's household before sleeping with Sara, raising many questions. Do you have an explanation of this that I'm not aware of? Plz start another thread if this is a discussion topic you want to continue on, plz.

As pointed out in my other posts, after the Garden/Fall (with its laws/times which were locked-up after the fall) God gave no general law till Sinai, though giving individuals commands (individual laws). It is to this that Paul refers to in Ro5.13 when he says there was no law. See v14. God created Man smart. Their deductive reasoning of things, along with the conscience, were to be used by them to determine right and wrong. When Cain killed Abel it was self-evident to Cain he had done wrong, (having a ready excuse for God when confronted, giving a snotty answer) though not acknowledging it till confronted. His God-given abilities and the nature of the conscience which pointed to the image of God convicted him of this sin, when there had been no law given against murder, til Noah. When judged Cain does not buck it, though saying his judgment is too hard for him to bear, acknowledging guilt without argument because his conscience knows it.

Jesus confirms this kind of reasoning of determining things, speaking in Mt19 about marriage and divorce. He says 'from the beginning it was not so' but (God through) Moses allowed divorce because of the hardness of your heart. Jesus implies that what was demonstrated to Man about marriage/divorce in the beginning (joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh, is not a command) should have been recognised by them even though God hadn't given to them a law about it at that time. In other words they would have figured it out by their reasoning abilities even though there was no law given them. Thus, Pharaoh and Abimelech were judged on the basis of what Jesus implies that Man had reasoned, not a given law. God doesn't make mistakes and he wasn't wrong to judge them when no law was given because he knew what their conscience and intellect had told them about it.

There was transgression of God's law ever since Adam to Moses. True, when being between the time of Adam and Moses, the internal law of the image of God. Paul was saying, that no one could say, since there wasn't the "Law of Moses" present, that those from Adam to Moses were absolved of sin. (Note: commas and word added because of authors poor sentence structure)True. And any one responding to the God-given conscience are responding to a God-given method of directing people to live right. These are thus exhibiting faith and repentance, same as those who do so by responding to the Word. They want to stop sinning and want to live right. God would be pleased if only 10% of the world would do so. Everyone from Adam to Moses still needed a Savior. True. With Adam all men died spiritually True. , with Jesus Christ all men are made alive forever True.. All men who come to Jesus Christ through the water baptism in Jesus name and the infilling of the Holy Ghost evidence of speaking in other tongues. No other way to heaven. Yes, he is the only way given to those who have heard about the way. A just loving God also provides a way for those who never get a chance to hear about Jesus.

You have utterly failed to prove that men who have never heard of the Gospel are saved. That they can be saved any other way other than the blood of Jesus Christ. This statement assumes that the blood of Jesus is only effectual for those who have heard the Word. It was spilled for all sin not just for those who have heard the Word. I've not yet seen evidence that it is not effectual to those who follow God's ways when they follow the God-given conscience. Nor do I have anything currently to say which would support that it does, other than: covenant usually has to do with blood and these gentiles who don't have the Word may not have covenant. Does God d.mn someone just because they do not have covenant, when living right without the Word? A definition of covenant which was discussed on another thread is: when God asks someone to do something, and they do it, they are in covenant, as Noah is shown doing to enter covenant (the first time the word covenant is mentioned in the Bible, Ge6). No blood sacrifice is mentioned when entering this covenant, though it would be hardly conceivable that Noah hadn't previous to this not been a sacrificer (said without evidence but logically true). If this is a true definition of covenant then, when any who do not have the Word do God's bidding by responding to the God-given method of directing people to live right by the conscience, then these may also be in covenant. It may not be possible to say either way is correct until a unshakeable defn of covenant is established by consensus.

Or, we could use the reverse-direction-reasoning method that is shown used by some on this thread. For example, they say that these in Ro2 must be filled with the Spirit when Ro2 says they show the law in their hearts, because... He8 shows people who have the Word written on their hearts have the Spirit. These who do so, assume 'show' and 'written' are equivalents, and then starting at He8, they reverse-direction-reason and say these in Ro2 must be born again because they show the law in their hearts. Also using this method we could say that these who have gone to heaven by a clean conscience, when they didn't have the Word, must be covered by the Blood because they are in heaven. If the reverse-direction-reasoning works in one instance then it should also in another instance, right? I'm right aren't I? (you'll likely say, 'not right' and then walk away without explanation, like you've done in other posts.)

Your doctrine is question begging, and has holes which you are failing to plug up. I've responded to fill the holes you've mentioned. Are there some you haven't shown or that I've missed? State them.
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[donfriesen1]

Originally Posted by Amanah

Book of Romans thesis Statement:
The Gospel of Jesus Christ, received by faith, is the power of God for salvation to all who believe, only true for those who hear it Jew and Gentile alike, revealing God's righteousness and reconciling humanity to Himself.

Supporting Arguments:

(Romans 1:1-17)
Gospel as power of God for salvation Only true for those who hear it.

(Romans 1:18-3:20)
- God's wrath against human sin and idolatry Agreed
- Universal sinfulness and guiltAgreed
- Jewish culpability under the LawAgreed

(Ro2.12-16)
-shows some, who don't have the Word, justified
-shows some with the law on their hearts, by nature
-by nature is shown to be responding to the conscience
-implies a clean conscience gives accesss to heaven


(Romans 3:21-5:21)
- Righteousness through faith in Jesus ChristAgreed
- Justification by faith Agreed
- Abraham as example of faithAgreed

Ro5.13)
- shows those without the Word aren't judged as if they had the Word
- implies babies gain entrance to heaven even when not born again
- implies those without the Word with a clean conscience gain heaven


(Romans 6:1-8:39)
- Union with Christ in death and resurrectionAgreed
- Freedom from sin and slavery to righteousnessAgreed
- Life in the SpiritAgreed

(Romans 9:1-11:36)
- God's plan in the new testament is to save all through obedience to the gospel, Jew and gentile alike.Agreed

(Romans 12:1-15:13)
Need the infilling of the Holy Ghost and the ministry of the church to walk after the SpiritAgreed

(Romans 15:14-16:27)
Conclusion

This summary outlines the main arguments and themes in the Book of Romans, supporting the thesis statement that obedience to the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and walking after the Spirit is the power of God for salvation.Agreed

.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Don, did I happen to mention that you don’t believe fat meat is greasy?

[Nicodemus1968]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Don, did I happen to mention that you don’t believe fat meat is greasy?

Bwahahahaha!!!!!

I believe the last time I heard that phrase was when Elder DC Moody was preaching.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Don, did I happen to mention that you don’t believe fat meat is greasy?

Probably thinks you can get all your protein from soy.

[donfriesen1]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Don, did I happen to mention that you don’t believe fat meat is greasy?

That's it, Dom Benincasa! Now you're back to your ways of 'mock all that Don says'.

What happened in those other posts where you didn't mock much and actually responded in an appropriate way? Were you ill? or having a bad day? Anyway, now that you're back to form, keep on trying.

Perhaps you could answer this question: Why do many Apostolics believe that any who is only baptized, but hasn't received the Holy Ghost, believe that these go to heaven, when Benincasa and Amanah and Esaias say they would go to hell. Can you speak for them (when you seemingly can for me occasionally) ?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by donfriesen1

That's it, Dom Benincasa! Now you're back to your ways of 'mock all that Don says'.

What happened in those other posts where you didn't mock much and actually responded in an appropriate way? Were you ill? or having a bad day? Anyway, now that you're back to form, keep on trying.

Perhaps you could answer this question: Why do many Apostolics believe that any who is only baptized, but hasn't received the Holy Ghost, believe that these go to heaven, when Benincasa and Amanah and Esaias say they would go to hell. Can you speak for them (when you seemingly can for me occasionally) ?

Why are you putting Esaias' nick in Red Letters?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Probably thinks you can get all your protein from soy.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Don, do you speak in tongues? I don't mean a wop bop a loo bop a wop bam boom. Or homomashanda I rode in on a Honda, or Peter Fonda on a Honda, and Dennis Hopper on a Chopper. I mean as the Spirit of God gives the utterance? I usually find, that among the non tongue talkers are those who are against tongues being part of soteriology. So, Don, do you speak in tongues as the Holy Ghost gives you the ability?