Do we have to pay tithes? - Page 46

1ofthechosen · #**451** 04-24-2018, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquila

I'm first going to share something I know you've already heard. But stick with me...

The tithe was connected to the land. Only Produce derived from the seed of Israel whether from field, tree or herd. If one wanted to tithe money, it wasn't a tithe because one could not consume money. The tithe had to be eaten before the Lord in a time of celebration, in a community God approved for that year (Deut.14:23). Also, if one wanted to give money or other goods, it was called an heave offering. It was also a free will offering. A tithe was ten percent of one's harvest, not income.

Leviticus 27:30, "And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree, is the LORD’S: it is holy unto the LORD."

Deuteronomy 14:22, "Thou shalt truly tithe all the increase of thy seed, that the field bringeth forth year by year."

Leviticus 27:32, "And concerning the tithe of the herd, or of the flock, even of whatsoever passeth under the rod, the tenth shall be holy unto the LORD."

Deuteronomy 14:23, "And thou shalt eat before the LORD thy God, in the place which he shall choose to place his name there, the tithe of thy corn, of thy wine, and of thine oil, and the firstlings of thy herds and of thy flocks; that thou mayest learn to fear the LORD thy God always."

In fact, if one studies Judaism and rabbinical writings one will quickly learn that the only two classes of people ordered to tithe are the landowners and the Levites within the boarders of Israel. The stranger, orphan, and widow received tithes from the local landowners, and were also exempted from tithing. Others like, fishermen, carpenters and all other non farmers and craftsmen of any occupation are exempt from tithing as well if they did not own and farm their land.

The disciples, who were fishermen, weren't required to tithe.

Jesus, prior to his ministry, was a carpenter. Carpenters were not required to tithe.

That brings us to your position.

Your position focuses on the notion of God desiring our "increase" be it related to the land such as livestock, grain, and/or produce... or monetary increase.

If that were truly so... why didn't God seek or require a tithe of such "increase" in the Bible? Why were carpenters, stone masons, fishermen, merchants, traders, weavers, and other professions exempt from tithing??? If God never changes (like you stated)... then aren't all non-farming professions exempt from tithing today? And doesn't this prove that God wasn't concerned with any "increase"...unless it was in relation to farming and its connection with the "holy land"?

So, I believe your position in regards to the claim that God never changes, and that God desires our "increase" actually defeats itself when compared to what the "Bible" defines as tithe-able increase and those professions that were exempt from tithing. If God never changes, nor would His definition of "increase", nor would His definition of exempted classes and professions.

Bro at the time of the law they all were in the wilderness. The only place they were going to get true increase was from the cattle, and the seed, and the fruit. Everyone was as Acts 2:44 they were all" together, and had all things common."

Evang.Benincasa · #**452** 04-24-2018, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1ofthechosen

Bro at the time of the law they all were in the wilderness. The only place they were going to get true increase was from the cattle, and the seed, and the fruit. Everyone was as Acts 2:44 they were all" together, and had all things common."

Brother that wasn't 10%, that is 100%.

But please explain what you are trying to say.

Aquila · #**453** 04-24-2018, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1ofthechosen

Bro at the time of the law they all were in the wilderness. The only place they were going to get true increase was from the cattle, and the seed, and the fruit. Everyone was as Acts 2:44 they were all" together, and had all things common."

The Law was given in preparation of their taking the Holy Land as God desired. Much of the Law was only applicable upon being established in the land. Even today, Jews don't tithe. Why? No Levites and no Temple. In fact, Jews in America will make a point to tell you that they'd be exempt from the tithe even if there was a Levitical Priesthood and a Temple, because they don't live within "the land" as God defined it, nor are they farmers in that "holy land".

In Acts... At the first, they sold everything and combined the wealth. But we only see that in Jerusalem. After this, we see examples of the church sharing their lives, belongings, and resources. We see the church living in "community".

I know many might "tithe" and give their "love offering" to support missions... but if your brother or sister is in need of a lawn mower... and you have it to lend... or even give... and you don't... you're failing to exemplify the NT ethic of body ministry and provision. Most already know this. But many don't think of it because so often in our society we drive miles to get to a church building filled with people who all live miles apart from us and even miles apart from one another. Our lives are often so disconnected it's easy to not even realize the need to bring up the fact that we need a lawn mower... and as a result... no one thinks in the paradigm of needing to be at the ready with a lawn mower to lend. So, we haven't been blessed to experience that kind of sharing of our lives and resources... unless we've been a part of a smaller, more locally centered, body such as a care group, house church, Bible study group, or what have you.

1ofthechosen · #**454** 04-24-2018, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Brother that wasn't 10%, that is 100%.

But please explain what you are trying to say.

So in Leviticus 27 where it talks about the tithe of the ground, the seed, the fruit and the cattle that was encompassing all areas, because that's where all their increase differed. That's why with Cain and Abel one was the tiller of the ground, and the other one was over the field. In these times that was everything. They weren't trading with other peoples, they were seperate and all to theirself. So all these different occupations were all one and the same. They all worked together and had all things common..

Aquila · #**455** 04-24-2018, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1ofthechosen

So in Leviticus 27 where it talks about the tithe of the ground, the seed, the fruit and the cattle that was encompassing all areas, because that's where all their increase differed. That's why with Cain and Abel one was the tiller of the ground, and the other one was over the field. In these times that was everything. They weren't trading with other peoples, they were seperate and all to theirself. So all these different occupations were all one and the same. They all worked together and had all things common..

I don't believe the Jews ever interpreted it so loosely. Nor do they today. The financial increase of tradesmen and professions not related to farming was not tithe-able income. The tithe was strictly related to the increase from farming the land. And, God never changes. Right?

Evang.Benincasa · #**456** 04-24-2018, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1ofthechosen

So in Leviticus 27 where it talks about the tithe of the ground, the seed, the fruit and the cattle that was encompassing all areas, because that's where all their increase differed. That's why with Cain and Abel one was the tiller of the ground, and the other one was over the field. In these times that was everything. They weren't trading with other peoples, they were seperate and all to theirself. So all these different occupations were all one and the same. They all worked together and had all things common..

My brother that isn't what is happening in Acts 2:44 which is practiced in Acts 4:35. The Jerusalem congregations started out communal. They sold everything including property and laid 100% at the feet of the Apostles. Promising to give all and keep back through lying would be problematic. But it wasn't 10% it was 100%.

Evang.Benincasa · #**457** 04-24-2018, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquila

Nor do they today.

Excuse me? THEY? Who are they Chris? Who are the they?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquila

And, God never changes. Right?

Sadly people sure do.

1ofthechosen · #**458** 04-24-2018, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

My brother that isn't what is happening in Acts 2:44 which is practiced in Acts 4:35. The Jerusalem congregations started out communal. They sold everything including property and laid 100% at the feet of the Apostles. Promising to give all and keep back through lying would be problematic. But it wasn't 10% it was 100%.

Amen!

Aquila · #**459** 04-24-2018, 04:19 PM

I think it is becoming obvious that one cannot "rob God" by not tithing (as they did in Malachi) unless one were a farmer or Levite within ancient Israel who was refusing to give the 10th of their increase from the land. Which was the case in Malachi.

Evang.Benincasa · #**460** 04-24-2018, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquila

I know many might "tithe" and give their "love offering" to support missions... but if your brother or sister is in need of a lawn mower... and you have it to lend... or even give... and you don't... you're failing to exemplify the NT ethic of body ministry and provision.

You are so fortunate that no one knows you here.