Dave Bernard addresses beards

[H2H]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

The ladies in our church if they are going to be on the platform I want their hair and the men to wear ties. There is no scriptural command for either but to me it looks nicer so they do it.

Am I a cultist if I:

Tell folks to turn to page 95 in the song book?
Tell folks we will have a prayer meeting on Monday night?
Tell folks we are having a workday Saturday and I want them there?
Tell folks service begins at 6 on Sunday Night?
Tell folks bring some visitors?

And the list goes on.

I am a leader that is what I do is to lead. Why is it only in church are leaders seen as cult leaders if they actually lead and expect folks to follow?

This is not going to be easy. Rhoni -- HELP!!!!

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by H2H

This is not going to be easy. Rhoni -- HELP!!!!

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOPS! I fixed it.

[Jekyll]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

You know folks Biblical illiteracy is amazing Paul spoke of MY children, MY sons and he was an Apostle of the early church.

Bro Epley, many here do not care what is written in the Bible...they sterilize it and explain it away.

You do what you do best and keep your heart true in your labor of love.

[Rico]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

The ladies in our church if they are going to be on the platform I want their hair and the men to wear ties. There is no scriptural command for either but to me it looks nicer so they do it.

Am I a cultist if I:

Tell folks to turn to page 95 in the song book?
Tell folks we will have a prayer meeting on Monday night?
Tell folks we are having a workday Saturday and I want them there?
Tell folks service begins at 6 on Sunday Night?
Tell folks bring some visitors?

And the list goes on.

I am a leader that is what I do is to lead. Why is it only in church are leaders seen as cult leaders if they actually lead and expect folks to follow?

Brother Epley, I don't see anyone saying that as a pastor you have no authority. I do, however, see people pointing out areas where they feel you, and other pastors also, overstep that authority and cross into areas that are beyond the scope of scriptural mandate. You simply can not make up rules for people to live by just because they suit you. Those days are long gone, my friend. I've said it before and will say it again, some people do need to be led by the nose or they simply won't make it. That approach does not work for everybody, however. Frankly, I don't need someone to tell me whether I can or can't grow a beard. It's really none of any pastor's business if I have one or not because it won't affect my getting into Heaven. If it did then it would be spelled out in God's Word, just like all the other things that will affect my getting into Heaven are. If God wants me to shave He is more than able to get my attention and let me know. I'm more than willing to shave these whiskers for Him, if He were to ask me. He isn't so I ain't.

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by Rico

Brother Epley, I don't see anyone saying that as a pastor you have no authority. I do, however, see people pointing out areas where they feel you, and other pastors also, overstep that authority and cross into areas that are beyond the scope of scriptural mandate. You simply can not make up rules for people to live by just because they suit you. Those days are long gone, my friend. I've said it before and will say it again, some people do need to be led by the nose or they simply won't make it. That approach does not work for everybody, however. Frankly, I don't need someone to tell me whether I can or can't grow a beard. It's really none of any pastor's business if I have one or not because it won't affect my getting into Heaven. If it did then it would be spelled out in God's Word, just like all the other things that will affect my getting into Heaven are. If God wants me to shave He is more than able to get my attention and let me know. I'm more than willing to shave these whiskers for Him, if He were to ask me. He isn't so I ain't.

Could it be your line was busy???????????????

[Rico]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Could it be your line was busy???????????????

No. That line is never busy, Brother. I am always open to hearing from the Lord. The older I get the more I cherish it when the Lord takes time out from running the Universe to come visit hard headed old me.

[Felicity]

It's my position that the "leader" of a church has a huge responsibility to lead in the fear of God and according to the dictates and within the parameters of what the Word of God sets forth as the standard of leadership.

The "leader" ... the man who has been called of God to oversee an assembly of believers .... has an onus placed on him to not put yokes too heavy to bear on the people he shepherds and leads.

He is a "watchman on the wall" who has a burden and a directive to care for and oversee the flock of God in any given church.

He's also been given the responsibility to dictate and put into place the guidelines as he sees fit (as the under shepherd responsible to the Great Shepherd) .... and the parameters that he feels comfortable with .... as to how he will carry out his responsibilities. Then it is up to the people whether they will follow or not.

I was told by a very wise man many years ago that if a pastor provides a proper ... balanced diet then for the most part people will be content and won't stray too far away. If they are being loved and cared for, their spiritual needs being ministered to and they're receiving a healthy and nourishing diet re the Word of God as it's fed to them then they will put up with a lot of restriction.

Along with that we can't forget that people's consciences and convictions are formed and built around the teaching they receive. What may seem extreme to someone whose conscience and conviction has been established by lesser restriction ... seems normal to those raised with a tighter rein.

What is a "leader" after all if he doesn't do just that? Lead!

How one man leads may not be my cup of tea totally, but genuine love and care from a man of God for my soul would mean an AWFUL lot and whether or not I could wear a beard (if I were a man of course ) would pale in comparison and be a pretty moot consideration in whether or not I would want to stay where I was being cared for by an anointed man of God with a burden for souls - including my own!

So there you have it. There's more than one way to look at everything!

By the way ......... God bless you Bro. Epley!

[ThePastorsCoach]

Elder Epley - As you know - I have a goatee, wear gold and shorts sometimes, my wife has her hair trimmed at times and wears pants at times, she wears make up and jewelry.
I have sense enough to know - I am not going to come to your church and be accepted as a member. Most likely if I ever even visited - I would not wear a ring and would shave before I got there.

You have EVERY RIGHT as a Pastor and Shepard of that flock to watch over them and if you feel something to be a hindrance in their lives - to deal with that and if they are in opposition to it - show them, love them and if they do not submit - to put them out of the church.

You are the Bishop of your house and if they don't want to abide by the house rules - then they need to go somewhere else.

We would be considered by most on this forum to be "Charismatic" or liberal. But I can promise you one thing - we have house rules at Church Alive - just like any house that people live in. I am the Bishop & Father of the house and I lay down the house rules. There are folks that come in that don't like it - they can leave the same way they came in - I am not gonna change for anybody else! I am there to Father and Shepard a congregation and to bring them into maturity. It may not be as up to speed as yours - but it is not YOUR house - its the House God gave me RULE over!

Elder - You do what you have to do and require what you have to require. I would not expect you to serve me communion and if you did - I would be disappointed in you! I do love you and admire you and love to laugh with you. We simply do not agree doctrinally - I love you anyway. I don't think your going to hell for your stand on somethings or your lack of stand on others - It is NOT a heaven or hell issue. A Pastor has every right to require standards and boundaries for his people.

[HeavenlyOne]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

The ladies in our church if they are going to be on the platform I want their hair up and the men to wear ties. There is no scriptural command for either but to me it looks nicer so they do it.

Am I a cultist if I:

Tell folks to turn to page 95 in the song book?
Tell folks we will have a prayer meeting on Monday night?
Tell folks we are having a workday Saturday and I want them there?
Tell folks service begins at 6 on Sunday Night?
Tell folks bring some visitors?

And the list goes on.

I am a leader that is what I do is to lead. Why is it only in church are leaders seen as cult leaders if they actually lead and expect folks to follow?

I suppose I'm somewhat of a dictator at work.

Part of my job is telling the CNA's what to do, in addition to their daily duties.

If I need vitals taken, I find one of them and tell them to do it.

They can't even take a break unless I ok them to take one and I can tell them what time to take one.

If someone has a call light on, I find a CNA to answer it.

I sometimes even have to discipline them!

[HeavenlyOne]

Originally Posted by Rico

Brother Epley, I don't see anyone saying that as a pastor you have no authority. I do, however, see people pointing out areas where they feel you, and other pastors also, overstep that authority and cross into areas that are beyond the scope of scriptural mandate. You simply can not make up rules for people to live by just because they suit you. Those days are long gone, my friend. I've said it before and will say it again, some people do need to be led by the nose or they simply won't make it. That approach does not work for everybody, however. Frankly, I don't need someone to tell me whether I can or can't grow a beard. It's really none of any pastor's business if I have one or not because it won't affect my getting into Heaven. If it did then it would be spelled out in God's Word, just like all the other things that will affect my getting into Heaven are. If God wants me to shave He is more than able to get my attention and let me know. I'm more than willing to shave these whiskers for Him, if He were to ask me. He isn't so I ain't.

You mean, since the time of Paul??

The Bible is full of him giving orders without scripture to back him up. Most of his letters deal with how HE preferred things in the churches. I wonder how the Bible would read if King James included the rebuttals of those churches...........