The UPC is a dying movement! - Page 46

votivesoul · #**451** 08-11-2017, 02:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by houston

Why are there so many more ministers than churches? Are they counting local license and evangelists?

In a lot of UPCI churches, the structure often requires a Senior and Assistant Pastor, sometimes with Associates Pastors, as well.

So one church might actually have 2-3 licensed ministers, depending on the size. A large UPCI church I am familiar with in Madison, WI, for example, has something like 10 or 12 licensed ministers, if memory serves.

Amanah · #**452** 08-11-2017, 05:18 AM

It's sad that some can not be happy for indicators of growth in the UPC, but would prefer to see it's decline.

aegsm76 · #**453** 08-11-2017, 10:01 AM

As someone who has been in and around the UPC for many years, let me say that I am happy about the numbers.
However...
Many districts have also received the word that they need to get more licensed ministers, especially young ministers.
I have seen young ministers receiving license that, in the past, would have had to wait several years.
We will see if that is a good thing.
I have believed that many districts had too rigorous of an application process, in the past, just unsure if they have now been loosened too much.

n david · #**454** 08-11-2017, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by votivesoul

Data can be tricky. Numbers alone never tell the story. Was there an increase in the number of ministers due to a natural occurrence of growth, or through some kind of pressure within the organization to solve it's decline from the previous years? Have any of the districts changed or lowered their requirements of local license, such that many more men and women have become licensed? If so, how many of them weren't really qualified, until the requirements were changed or lowered?

Nobody here or there has the answers to these questions. I merely offer them to raise the point that these numbers don't tell us nearly as much as we may at first assume.

As far as the increase in the number of churches, does that number incorporate the UPCI affiliated churches that caved in or shut doors? Was the numerical increase partially due to schisms, in which a licensed minister left one church over some set of issues but then went on to begin another?

The fact is we can't say with any certainty one way or another, meaning, since we can't properly interpret this data without further context, the data becomes meaningless/not an indicator of anything.

Requirements haven't been lowered, to be sure.

What has changed, at least in this District, is they have created a "school of ministry" to assist with training and licensing. Whereas before, a man (or woman) would somewhat be required to attend a bible school in order to obtain training and license, some districts have now have this school of ministry which provide ministry training needed for licensing. This has allowed couples or single men and women who were previously unable to move to a bible school, spending thousands on tuition, to get training and obtain their license.

n david · #**455** 08-11-2017, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by houston

Why are there so many more ministers than churches? Are they counting local license and evangelists?

Yes, anyone with a current UPCI license.

n david · #**456** 08-11-2017, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aegsm76

As someone who has been in and around the UPC for many years, let me say that I am happy about the numbers.
However...
Many districts have also received the word that they need to get more licensed ministers, especially young ministers.
I have seen young ministers receiving license that, in the past, would have had to wait several years.
We will see if that is a good thing.
I have believed that many districts had too rigorous of an application process, in the past, just unsure if they have now been loosened too much.

I don't believe the requirements have been lowered, just more districts are doing better to equip those who don't wish to go to bible school.

Back in the 90s, in the district in which I grew up, the only practical way to obtain a license was to attend Bible school for four years. You could do it on your own, but it was much harder. Again, now some districts have formal training, locally, to assist with this.