How close should a pastor get to the members?

[Rhoni]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Rhoni,
We voted in a pastor and this was his prayer - "Lord, would you send us to a church full of hurting people because we have a lot of love to give."

My husband and I were saying how nice it is to come to church and not feel stressed out, pressured and tense. I didn't think I would ever feel this way. It's been a long haul, let me tell you!

I stand here astonished that what God promised us years ago, and I'm talking years ago, is now coming to pass. I don't know why He takes us on some of our journeys, but if we just hold on to a promise, it will come to pass. God is faithful!!!!

Against hope believe in hope!

Dear PO, My journey has been difficult at times but I also have a hope and God is directing my path...I know I must be traveling right because I remember passing Calvary, and though it's dusty and it's old - for years it's bore the travelers load...someday this road will turn to gold.

Blessings my friend,
Rhoni

[Falla39]

Originally Posted by Rhoni

Dear PO, My journey has been difficult at times but I also have a hope and God is directing my path...I know I must be traveling right because I remember passing Calvary, and though it's dusty and it's old - for years it's bore the travelers load...someday this road will turn to gold.

Blessings my friend,
Rhoni

Sis. Rhoni,

I was just singing that song last evening while driving along. Love it!

Hugs,

Falla39

[Rhoni]

Originally Posted by Falla39

Sis. Rhoni,

I was just singing that song last evening while driving along. Love it!

Hugs,

Falla39

My mind's eye always listens to Sis Mickey Mangun sing this no matter what comes my way. I could turn around, for the road is stil there - but every mountain that I climbed I again would have to bear ...

*hugs* Rhoni

[aak1972]

Originally Posted by Amos

You have given an absurd example.

Nobody should need pastoral counsel about which model of vehicle to buy.

Professional counselors don't deal with that kind of thing either.

This may seem absurd to you. But I know of pastors who not only counsel on these matters they require the saints to gain thier permission on what car to buy.

[Amos]

Originally Posted by aak1972

This may seem absurd to you. But I know of pastors who not only counsel on these matters they require the saints to gain thier permission on what car to buy.

Using goofballs as an example doesn't enhance the discussion.

Situations like you reference are extremely rare and so dysfunctional that they in no way represent the mainstream.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Rhoni

Dear PO, My journey has been difficult at times but I also have a hope and God is directing my path...I know I must be traveling right because I remember passing Calvary, and though it's dusty and it's old - for years it's bore the travelers load...someday this road will turn to gold.

Blessings my friend,
Rhoni

I love that song!!!! Reviewed that in my mind many a time!!!

God bless!

[aak1972]

Originally Posted by Amos

Using goofballs as an example doesn't enhance the discussion.

Situations like you reference are extremely rare and so dysfunctional that they in no way represent the mainstream.

Im only using these examples to make a point. All pastors have some line they will not cross when it comes to counseling and it varies with the pastor. My uncle has pastored the same church for 31 years and he will not counsel on personal matters.

[Fiyahstarter]

Originally Posted by OneAccord

Sis. Rhoni- Someone said they feel sad for you. I don't in the least... in fact, I rejoice with you. Heres why: (Pay attention, if you will to the underlined parts)

Jer 23:1 Woe be unto the pastors that destroy and scatter the sheep of my pasture! saith the LORD.

Jer 23:2 Therefore thus saith the LORD God of Israel against the pastors that feed my people; Ye have scattered my flock, and driven them away, and have not visited them: behold, I will visit upon you the evil of your doings, saith the LORD.

Jer 23:3 And I will gather the remnant of my flock out of all countries whither I have driven them, and will bring them again to their folds; and they shall be fruitful and increase.
Jer 23:4 And I will set up shepherds over them which shall feed them: and they shall fear no more, nor be dismayed, neither shall they be lacking, saith the LORD.

First, notice how "pastors" and "shepherds" are used interchangably. Now notice God speaks to the "bad pastors"- like those that you think of during discussions like this.

God will get rid of the pastors that hurt God's people. In your case, He moved you out of that situation. And thankfully, He did. He taught you what a "bad pastor" is and you've been kinda roaming around the countryside... But...heres the deal... YOU ARE THE REMNANT that God is speaking of here. He promised to get you away from the "bad" and lead you to your own fold. And will give you a pastor like the shepherd above. (vs 4)

Its not about trusting a pastor, its about trusting God to lead you by His Spirit where He wants you to be. Its about trusting God to lead the remnant, the few who will follow Him out of those bad pastures, into greener pastures where they will not fear, be dismayed, or lack anything. Its not about following a pastor, its about following the Lord. Its not about submitting to a pastor (or husband), its about submitting to the Lord.

Notice: Jer 23:3 And I will gather the remnant of my flock out of all countries whither I have driven them, Where I have driven them. See? God has you were you are now because He wants to teach you to trust, follow, and sumit to, not a man, but HIM! Well, then, if that is His purpose, why do I need a pastor and/or church? , you may ask? Simple. First, as with all ministry gifts, you need a pastor to help you to be perfected in Christ. (Eph. 4) And you (and I) need the church for fellowship and to utilize your gifts as God has called you.

When I get into a church, I trust, follow and submit to, not the man or woman that is pastor, but to the God they represent. And there are godly pastors out there. For the maybe two or three bad ones you know, there are 100s that are as God describes above (Jer. 23:4). Let down your guard for a minute. Its not the MAN God is calling us to trust, follow, and submit to. Its not a man we should obey. Its God.

Rejoice. You are the remnant that God has led out of the dry, barren pastures and He's moving you to greener pastures.... if you'll let Him.

Beautiful. Thanks for that!

[2020Vision]

Originally Posted by aak1972

The pastors I know of have no formal training in counseling. There is a degree of tact that needs to be taken with anyone in a life altering situation. We dont need to go to someone and confide in them only to be blasted about sin in our life. Another example; if you were thinking about buying a new family vehicle and you asked you pastor for counsel on the matter and he told you to buy the 2009 Expedition. You do and 6 months later the thing turns out to be a lemon. Who will you blame? You know you will its human nature.

Would you believe that most cases of depression stem from sin. That is, "missing the mark"? I've talked to Apostolics who hold Doctoral and Masters degrees in this field, as well as some that have many years experience counseling people, and many agree that, at least MOST of the time, the issue truly is sin, or somewhere the person knows to do right but doesn't do it.

Regarding the vehicle. A wise pastor will lend general advice and maybe even give advice regarding a particular matter, but advice is just that, advice. It's not pastoral direction, a command in lieu of Scripture, etc. The Body of Christ has enough talented and dedicated man that one could get wise counsel with the Biblical worldview in mind.

[2020Vision]

Originally Posted by Amos

Using goofballs as an example doesn't enhance the discussion.

Situations like you reference are extremely rare and so dysfunctional that they in no way represent the mainstream.

Exactly.