Old way of Holiness Standard do we need to keep?

[HeavenlyOne]

Originally Posted by theoldpaths

I'm not aware of the UPC leaders/elders coming together and making a decision regarding the internet as a whole. The fact that the UPC home page (http://www.upci.org/) contains resources for their members also confirms this. Incidentally, the UPC also recommends a tool for safe internet surfing.

Now what a particular pastor in the UPC decides for his own church that he pastors and will have to give an account to God for, I cannot say.

God bless.

God only gives T&I in regard to decisions that the UPC leaders and elders make? LOL!

Now, why can't the UPC recommend ways to watch safe programming? And why do they just recommend instead of require? If they required, perhaps their own wouldn't be falling as they are, i.e. park rendezvous and internet affairs.

I have yet to hear of a minister, pastor, or even just a saint fall into sin over having a TV. Not one divorce or adulterous affair have I ever heard come from the watching of the tube.

Why hasn't God told the ALJC crowd in a T&I that TV is wrong? Don't they have the same spirit we do?

Perhaps the interpreters aren't willing. Yeah, that must be it.

[HeavenlyOne]

Originally Posted by theoldpaths

Well, we know that tongues is as the Spirit gives the utterance and who gives the interpretation of tongues? God as well. Is God swayed about what men may or may not want? Not at all.

Is every apparent tongue and interpretation of tongues in the whole gambit of "Christian Pentecost" from God? I would have to say no.

Do you honestly believe God cares about TV as if it's the evil being and the cause for all sin?

Sin comes from the hearts of men, not from TV, internet, or anything else. If God is concerned about what's going on, He'll address the real issue...our hearts.

TV has nothing to do with the evils of this world.

[SOUNWORTHY]

Originally Posted by HeavenlyOne

Do you honestly believe God cares about TV as if it's the evil being and the cause for all sin?

Sin comes from the hearts of men, not from TV, internet, or anything else. If God is concerned about what's going on, He'll address the real issue...our hearts.

TV has nothing to do with the evils of this world.

No God doesn't care about TV but he does care about what you watch. He doesn't care about surfing the internet but he does care about where you surf, and he does care about who you choose as hero's in your life and the music you listen to.

I agree with what you have said except, TV and the evils of this world along with the Internet, movies, Video games, having low class professional sports people as heroes, music and many more things. We don't eliminate all these things from our lives but we monitor what we watch, play and listen to. Teaching in the church is the key, not restricting. And teaching is not threatening.

[tv1a]

I give the people who decided the television issue the benefit of the doubt. I have no doubt they based their decision on principle. I beleive they seriously prayed about it before coming to their conclusion.

Evidence suggests the upci internet resolution was not prayerfully considered. One uses a lot of the same terminology that blasts one technology to hell while coddling another technology hasn't been in the prayer closet much. Not one person has publically stated they prayed and fasted about the internet with the same fervency. It is because they desired the medium. They don't have a single original conviction in their body. Living off the convictions of the past. Reminds me of the sect of religious people who crucified Jesus.

God's principles are not a smorgasboard. Pick and choose when to apply principle.

The anti-tv crowd is worse than Democrats in speading misinformation.
They say television leads to compromise in doctrine and standards. The ALJC is proof that is false. I suggest they grow up

Originally Posted by HeavenlyOne

God only gives T&I in regard to decisions that the UPC leaders and elders make? LOL!

Now, why can't the UPC recommend ways to watch safe programming? And why do they just recommend instead of require? If they required, perhaps their own wouldn't be falling as they are, i.e. park rendezvous and internet affairs.

I have yet to hear of a minister, pastor, or even just a saint fall into sin over having a TV. Not one divorce or adulterous affair have I ever heard come from the watching of the tube.

Why hasn't God told the ALJC crowd in a T&I that TV is wrong? Don't they have the same spirit we do?

Perhaps the interpreters aren't willing. Yeah, that must be it.

[theoldpaths]

Originally Posted by HeavenlyOne

God only gives T&I in regard to decisions that the UPC leaders and elders make? LOL!

Now, why can't the UPC recommend ways to watch safe programming? And why do they just recommend instead of require? If they required, perhaps their own wouldn't be falling as they are, i.e. park rendezvous and internet affairs.

I have yet to hear of a minister, pastor, or even just a saint fall into sin over having a TV. Not one divorce or adulterous affair have I ever heard come from the watching of the tube.

Why hasn't God told the ALJC crowd in a T&I that TV is wrong? Don't they have the same spirit we do?

Perhaps the interpreters aren't willing. Yeah, that must be it.

God only gives T&I in regard to decisions that the UPC leaders and elders make?

I never said that - what i did say is that regarding 1 decision that the UPC leaders/elders made decades ago, it was accompanied by tongues and interpretation basically supporting the decision.

While I and my Pastor both agree that there are some good things on tv, there is also much bad. And once you find something good and wholesome on tv, next thing you know there is a commercial with a half-naked lady advertising whatever.

The following link, from a UPC site endorsing an internet tool for safe browsing, contains some interesting information/confessions/statistics - http://bsafeupci.com/why_filtering.asp

Does the same context exist on cable tv? Yes it does.

But each person is going to have to come to a decision on their own. As for me, my mind is made up. I've gone from a strict UPC church, to a very, very loose apostolic church pastored by someone who started the church partly because they were publicly rebuked for committing adultery. Did I own/watch tv in the loose church? Yes I did. I experimented with watching a lot of stuff, then I experimented with only trying to watch sports, news, nature stuff, etc; and I also experimented fasting completely from tv in the loose church. After all of my experimenting, I concluded that I was much stronger doing without tv. Incidentally, God lead me back to the strict UPC church where I was originally born again, and things have been going great. Incidentally, I don't watch tv there either.

Lots of people claim to have the Spirit, even me when I was a trinitarian, easy-believism, talk-in-tongues-anytime-I-wanted-to, pentecostal. But I can tell you now since I was born again apostolic, that I did NOT have the real thing back then - beyond a shadow of a doubt.

Not everyone who claims the Spirit has the Spirit.

God bless.

[theoldpaths]

Originally Posted by HeavenlyOne

Do you honestly believe God cares about TV as if it's the evil being and the cause for all sin?

Sin comes from the hearts of men, not from TV, internet, or anything else. If God is concerned about what's going on, He'll address the real issue...our hearts.

TV has nothing to do with the evils of this world.

I believe that God cares about what you think about, what you set before your eyes, and what you hear. Why do I believe that? Because that is what his word says.

Throughout the years its has not only been the UPC that has taken a stand against tv.

When I compare what is on tv according to what the bible teaches, I see a big difference, for the most part.

Studied have been done regarding the content on tv and its affect.

One thing I learned recently is that in order to keep people's attention, a tv program will change the camera view point every 9 seconds or so. Why do they do this even though it is taking place in the same scene? To make it more interesting. They found out that to make it more interesting to the eyes, they change the tv camere angle often. One result of this is that some children are used to having the lust of their eyes fulfilled by frequently changing the camera angle to maintain their interest. Then they go to school and just see the same old viewpoint, minute after minute. No wonder teachers have a problem keeping some kids attention.

1Jn 2:15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
1Jn 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
1Jn 2:17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

Lust of the flesh, lust of the eyes, and the pride of life. Is lust of the eyes just talking about sex? I don't think so as we see a practical example of Satan appealing to Eve regarding these exact same 3 things...

Gen 3:6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

Now how did mankind survive for thousands of years without tv? What need is it that man has that he feels he needs to fulfill by watching tv? Did that need still exist 100 years ago? And so how was it fulfilled 100 years ago?

Rom 1:29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
Rom 1:30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
Rom 1:31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
Rom 1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

Can a person have pleasure in others that do bad things?

[theoldpaths]

Also, what point is it to come up with godly rules/regulations if you are not going to enforce discipline for those in direct disobedience? My understanding is that UPC licensed ministers have to renew their license each year which requires them to re-affirm their agreement to abide by bare-minimum standards in the UPC manual. Some for a long time ago have been re-affirming, but not obeying. Has there been any discipline? Not from what I've heard. This seems hypicrital to me and apparently to a lot of other licensed UPC ministers who have decided to organize the WPF. Either enforce discipline or change the manual.

Gal 2:18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.

[SOUNWORTHY]

Originally Posted by theoldpaths

Also, what point is it to come up with godly rules/regulations if you are not going to enforce discipline for those in direct disobedience? My understanding is that UPC licensed ministers have to renew their license each year which requires them to re-affirm their agreement to abide by bare-minimum standards in the UPC manual. Some for a long time ago have been re-affirming, but not obeying. Has there been any discipline? Not from what I've heard. This seems hypicrital to me and apparently to a lot of other licensed UPC ministers who have decided to organize the WPF. Either enforce discipline or change the manual.

Gal 2:18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.

I know what you are saying but the UPCI is not a police organization. It would be impossible to keep track of what each and every minister is doing. If the minister signs and then doesn't obey it is between he and God. Personally, I'd like to see the TV thing eliminated from the UPC manual. Although I don't want to see UPC churches on TV. TV evangelists and TV churches have left a bad taste in the mouths of people. I think it is OK to advertise but not have live church programs.

I have a TV and am licensed but with another organization. As far as I know none of our churches are on TV either but we don't teach against TV but do teach about what we should watch on TV. When I was licensed with UPC I forgot about the TV thing and did renew. It was an oversight and I dropped my membership. Our UPC church did not harp on TV. Our pastor said he wished the people didn't have them but he didn't think it was a heaven or hell issue. I have always felt that if I couldn't watch a program because I would be uncomfortable with my daughters or grandchildren sitting next to me then I shouldn't watch it either. Or if I would feel uncomfortable having that person in my living room using the language he is using or doing the things he was doing then I need to hit the off or change channel button.

Probably the wildest program I watch is Monk or Matlock!!

[HeavenlyOne]

Originally Posted by SOUNWORTHY

No God doesn't care about TV but he does care about what you watch. He doesn't care about surfing the internet but he does care about where you surf, and he does care about who you choose as hero's in your life and the music you listen to.

I agree with what you have said except, TV and the evils of this world along with the Internet, movies, Video games, having low class professional sports people as heroes, music and many more things. We don't eliminate all these things from our lives but we monitor what we watch, play and listen to. Teaching in the church is the key, not restricting. And teaching is not threatening.

I completely agree. It's also no different than being careful about what books we read, but we don't eliminate reading any and all books.

[HeavenlyOne]

Originally Posted by theoldpaths

God only gives T&I in regard to decisions that the UPC leaders and elders make?

I never said that - what i did say is that regarding 1 decision that the UPC leaders/elders made decades ago, it was accompanied by tongues and interpretation basically supporting the decision.

While I and my Pastor both agree that there are some good things on tv, there is also much bad. And once you find something good and wholesome on tv, next thing you know there is a commercial with a half-naked lady advertising whatever.

The following link, from a UPC site endorsing an internet tool for safe browsing, contains some interesting information/confessions/statistics - http://bsafeupci.com/why_filtering.asp

Does the same context exist on cable tv? Yes it does.

But each person is going to have to come to a decision on their own. As for me, my mind is made up. I've gone from a strict UPC church, to a very, very loose apostolic church pastored by someone who started the church partly because they were publicly rebuked for committing adultery. Did I own/watch tv in the loose church? Yes I did. I experimented with watching a lot of stuff, then I experimented with only trying to watch sports, news, nature stuff, etc; and I also experimented fasting completely from tv in the loose church. After all of my experimenting, I concluded that I was much stronger doing without tv. Incidentally, God lead me back to the strict UPC church where I was originally born again, and things have been going great. Incidentally, I don't watch tv there either.

Lots of people claim to have the Spirit, even me when I was a trinitarian, easy-believism, talk-in-tongues-anytime-I-wanted-to, pentecostal. But I can tell you now since I was born again apostolic, that I did NOT have the real thing back then - beyond a shadow of a doubt.

Not everyone who claims the Spirit has the Spirit.

God bless.

I agree with what you say here, but that's not what you alluded to. I don't believe God is going to give a T&I to a church who's eldership made a decision based on opinions and personal preferences and use the T&I to prove that all should abide by them.

If I came to you, telling you that God gave a T&I in my church about the evils of internet in the same manner you claim He did with TV, would you get rid of internet? I seriously doubt it, and I wouldn't blame you. In fact, I'll go out on a limb and say that you would even doubt my story.

The ALJC isn't a 'loose' church organization. They are filled with the same spirit that you are filled with whether you want to admit it or not. That being the case, one has to wonder why God will give the UPC a T&I against the evils of TV but not enlighten the ALJC about the same issue.

Personally, I believe God has more important messages to deliver, like how the hearts of men should be clean and washed daily.