The Difference Between the PCI of the Merger and the Current Counterfeits

[Felicity]

Originally Posted by Theophilus

One man's opinion. The OP's agree with it, Jesus led me to it, I experienced it. Go where you want to.

Again, hard to argue with Jesus, but many will try...all will fail.

Jesus said it, if you are not born of the Spirit, you will NOT make it.

Should we be so suprised that he clarifies to Nicodemus just how that happens a couple of verses later?

I don't think I'm arguing with Jesus. Rather, that I'm agreeing with Him!

[SDG]

I John 4:

2 By this know the Spirit of God: every spirit which confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God.
3 And every spirit which does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not from God; and this is the antichrist which you heard is coming, and now is already in the world.
4 ¶ Little children, you are of God and have overcome them, because He in you is greater than he in the world.
5 They are of the world; because of this they speak of the world, and the world hears them.
6 We are of God; the one knowing God hears us. Whoever is not of God does not hear us. From this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error.
7 ¶ Beloved, let us love one another, because love is of God, and everyone who loves has been generated from God, and knows God.
8 The one who does not love has not known God, because God is love.
9 By this the love of God was revealed in us, because His Son, the Only begotten, God has sent into the world that we might live through Him.
10 In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us, and sent His Son to be a propitiation relating to our sins.
11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another.
12 No one has seen God at any time. If we love one another, God abides in us, and His love having been perfected is in us.
13 By this we know that we abide in Him, and He in us, because of His Spirit He has given to us.
14 ¶ And we have beheld and bear witness that the Father has sent the Son as Savior of the world.
15 Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God.
16 And we have known and have believed the love which God has in us. God is love, and the one abiding in love abides in God, and God in him.
17 ¶ By this, love has been perfected with us, that we have confidence in the day of judgment, that as He is, we are also in this world.
18 There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear, because fear has punishment; and the one fearing has not been perfected in love.
19 We love Him because He first loved us.
20 If anyone says, I love God, and hates his brother, he is a liar. For the one not loving his brother whom he has seen, how is he able to love God whom he has not seen?
21 And we have this commandment from Him, that the one who loves God also loves his brother.

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by Theophilus

One man's opinion. The OP's agree with it, Jesus led me to it, I experienced it. Go where you want to.

Again, hard to argue with Jesus, but many will try...all will fail.

Jesus said it, if you are not born of the Spirit, you will NOT make it.

Should we be so suprised that he clarifies to Nicodemus just how that happens a couple of verses later?

I don't disagree with the proposition, simply disagree with the definition.

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Theo ... not all OP's .... Jesus is the gate ... and no one wants to argue with him ... but please .... examine regeneration from more than John 3 and Acts 2:38

I examine regeneration from all scripture, but John 3,
(Jesus teaching the New Birth) and Acts 2, (Jesus' teachings fulfilled) are pivotal and cannot be belittled nor cut from the analysis. It all works together perfectly. You can't remove Spiritual Baptism as both the Apostles, and we, both see and hear, from the salvational equation.

It's the New Birth. Simple. Jesus taught it in plain Greek. The Apostles got it...

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by Theophilus

It teaches that all will hear that voice. How? Through who?

Through the one that is being born again of the Spirit. Jesus takes that tongue and does what he will with it. You hear that voice, but you can't tell where he's coming from with it, nor where he's going with it.

We've seen this ever since Pentecost. Spiritual Baptism. Required.

And with this profound understanding I will take my leave for the evening-(oops its morning) good night all. This has been invigorating.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by crakjak

And with this profound understanding I will take my leave for the evening-(oops its morning) good night all. This has been invigorating.

The tongue. And the heart? mind? ... ah forget it ... good night.

Originally Posted by Felicity

It's not so much a matter of personal choice. It's a matter of properly dividing the Word. This is a responsibility that has been given to us and one I take seriously so whatever decision I make as to what I do and don't believe scripture is saying has to be made in regard and in sync with what the Scripture is actually saying.

Jhn 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

How can we know when the Spirit is moving or blowing? Because we hear it/Him and we feel it/Him. I certainly felt the wind/pneuma many many times before I became baptized in the Holy Ghost and spoke in tongues. People knew that I was feeling the Spirit because of the way I reacted to Him moving on me. It was evident.

I don't think that this "wind" or "pneuma" is referring to speaking in tongues although tongues is definitely one of the proofs of Spirit infilling and definitely the initial evidence.

Acts 2:2 says that there was the sound of a mighty rushing or violent wind that filled the place where the 120 were sitting but that happened and the sound and effect of the wind was heard and seen before anybody spoke in tongues.

Speaking in tongues was evidence that the Spirit had come and filled the disciples, but the Spirit of God was already present and moving and evident before that happened.

Hope this helps explain my understanding of what that scripture is saying even if you don't agree. It's okay if you disagree with me but I really and seriously don't want to be wrong or amiss in regard to what I believe Scripture is saying. I want to get it right!

It's so important to get it right!

The initial event was that of a sound as a rushing mighty wind and cloven tongues. Initial signs for the initial outpouring, however, we don't see it replicated save the speaking in tongues.

I don't think that this "wind" or "pneuma" is referring to speaking in tongues although tongues is definitely one of the proofs of Spirit infilling and definitely the initial evidence.

This refers to the Spirit as I said, howbeit the "voice" does refer to tongues.

Jesus said that "so is every one that is born of the Spirit." in John 3:8.

That means He is referring to something everyone experiences during Spiritual Baptism, not just the tremendous signs that accompanied the day of Pentecost. That is the key. Everyone.

Originally Posted by crakjak

And with this profound understanding I will take my leave for the evening-(oops its morning) good night all. This has been invigorating.

Do a Bible study on the tongue and you might learn a little about why He chose to use the must unruly member of the body as something He might take control of to show that the Spirit is in control and the vessel is totally yielded to His Will..at least at the time.

[Barb]

Originally Posted by Pastor Poster

Part of the reason for the sudden drop is because we have realized how much we appreciate each other, even in our disagreement. Some folks just didn't want to win an argument and lose a friend in the process.

Amen!!

[Barb]

Originally Posted by Felicity

I don't think completely pointless.

I find there is always something said in these discussions that has merit and value and that offers a perspective I may not have seen before.

Absolutely!! Though I am confident in what I believe, I cannot tell you the number of times I wished I had TB's thread on the Spirit and Word from FCF...*sigh*