Marriage Rejuvenation?

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by TK Burk

And who has yet to aknowledge what God says about obeying civil laws and civil authorities? Not me.

It is better to obey God over man. The current marriage laws are unbiblical.

[Sean]

There was so many racist laws in our history it is mind boggling.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Sean

What is the greater sin?

A...speeding?

B....being married without a state license?


You see it yet?

One endangers life. The other makes agents of the state nervous. Lol

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Sean

There was so many racist laws in our history it is mind boggling.

Sad, but true.

I posted the extended comments of a conservative pastor who broke it down. Burk IGNORED his points. I'll post them again:

"By obtaining a marriage license, you place yourself under the jurisdiction of Family Court which is governed by unbiblical and immoral laws. Under these laws, you can divorce for any reason. Often, the courts side with the spouse who is in rebellion to God, and castigates the spouse who remains faithful by ordering him or her not to speak about the Bible or other matters of faith when present with the children.

As a minister, I cannot in good conscience perform a marriage which would place people under this immoral body of laws. I also cannot marry someone with a marriage license because to do so I have to act as an agent of the State. I would have to sign the marriage license, and I would have to mail it into the State. Given the State’s demand to usurp the place of God and family regarding marriage, and given it’s unbiblical, immoral laws to govern marriage, it would be an act of treason for me to do so.

When you read the Bible, you see that God intended for children to have their father’s blessing regarding whom they married. Daughters were to be given in marriage by their fathers (Dt. 22:16; Ex. 22:17; I Cor. 7:38). We have a vestige of this in our culture today in that the father takes his daughter to the front of the altar and the minister asks, "Who gives this woman to be married to this man?"

Historically, there was no requirement to obtain a marriage license in colonial America. When you read the laws of the colonies and then the states, you see only two requirements for marriage. First, you had to obtain your parents permission to marry, and second, you had to post public notice of the marriage 5-15 days before the ceremony.

Notice you had to obtain your parents permission. Back then you saw godly government displayed in that the State recognized the parents authority by demanding that the parents permission be obtained. Today, the all-encompassing ungodly State demands that their permission be obtained to marry.

By issuing marriage licenses, the State is saying, "You don’t need your parents permission, you need our permission." If parents are opposed to their child’s marrying a certain person and refuse to give their permission, the child can do an end run around the parents authority by obtaining the State’s permission, and marry anyway. This is an invasion and removal of God-given parental authority by the State.

From the State’s point of view, when you marry with a marriage license, you are not just marrying your spouse, but you are also marrying the State.

The most blatant declaration of this fact that I have ever found is a brochure entitled "With This Ring I Thee Wed." It is found in county courthouses across Ohio where people go to obtain their marriage licenses. It is published by the Ohio State Bar Association. The opening paragraph under the subtitle "Marriage Vows" states, "Actually, when you repeat your marriage vows you enter into a legal contract. There are three parties to that contract. 1.You; 2. Your husband or wife, as the case may be; and 3. the State of Ohio."

See, the State and the lawyers know that when you marry with a marriage license, you are not just marrying your spouse, you are marrying the State! You are like a polygamist! You are not just making a vow to your spouse, but you are making a vow to the State and your spouse. You are also giving undue jurisdiction to the State.

George Washington was married without a marriage license. Abraham Lincoln was married without a marriage license. So, how did we come to this place in America where marriage licenses are issued?

Historically, all the states in America had laws outlawing the marriage of blacks and whites. In the mid-1800’s, certain states began allowing interracial marriages or miscegenation as long as those marrying received a license from the state. In other words they had to receive permission to do an act which without such permission would have been illegal.

Blacks Law Dictionary points to this historical fact when it defines "marriage license" as, "A license or permission granted by public authority to persons who intend to intermarry." "Intermarry" is defined in Black’s Law Dictionary as, "Miscegenation; mixed or interracial marriages."

Give the State an inch and they will take a 100 miles (or as one elderly woman once said to me "10,000 miles.") Not long after these licenses were issued, some states began requiring all people who marry to obtain a marriage license. In 1923, the Federal Government established the Uniform Marriage and Marriage License Act (they later established the Uniform Marriage and Divorce Act). By 1929, every state in the Union had adopted marriage license laws.

What Should We Do?

Christian couples should not be marrying with State marriage licenses, nor should ministers be marrying people with State marriage licenses. Some have said to me, "If someone is married without a marriage license, then they aren’t really married." Given the fact that states may soon legalize same-sex marriages, we need to ask ourselves, "If a man and a man marry with a State marriage license, and a man and woman marry without a State marriage license - who’s really married? Is it the two men with a marriage license, or the man and woman without a marriage license?" In reality, this contention that people are not really married unless they obtain a marriage license simply reveals how Statist we are in our thinking. We need to think biblically.

You should not have to obtain a license from the State to marry someone anymore than you should have to obtain a license from the State to be a parent, which some in academic and legislative circles are currently pushing to be made law.

When I marry a couple, I always buy them a Family Bible which contains birth and death records, and a marriage certificate. We record the marriage in the Family Bible. Both George Washington and Abraham Lincoln were married without a marriage license. They simply recorded their marriages in their Family Bibles. So should we.
" ~ Pastor Matt Trewhella

This conservative pastor would eat Burks' lunch for accusing a couple of sin in defence of the state on account of that couples convictions against state marriage licensing and the unbiblical laws that govern marriage.

[Esaias]

The problem is, though, a person cannot claim a conscientious objection to a civil marriage, and THEN obtain a civil marriage for financial benefits.

[Sean]

The most blatant declaration of this fact that I have ever found is a brochure entitled "With This Ring I Thee Wed." It is found in county courthouses across Ohio where people go to obtain their marriage licenses. It is published by the Ohio State Bar Association. The opening paragraph under the subtitle "Marriage Vows" states, "Actually, when you repeat your marriage vows you enter into a legal contract. There are three parties to that contract. 1.You; 2. Your husband or wife, as the case may be; and 3. the State of Ohio."

See, the State and the lawyers know that when you marry with a marriage license, you are not just marrying your spouse, you are marrying the State! You are like a polygamist! You are not just making a vow to your spouse, but you are making a vow to the State and your spouse. You are also giving undue jurisdiction to the State.

Wow, I am married to my wife and CA???

This is crazy, Chris!!!

[Sean]

I married a liberal commie!!!


LOL

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Esaias

The problem is, though, a person cannot claim a conscientious objection to a civil marriage, and THEN obtain a civil marriage for financial benefits.

I became a commie for money.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Esaias

The problem is, though, a person cannot claim a conscientious objection to a civil marriage, and THEN obtain a civil marriage for financial benefits.

They can if one changes their mind, and the other desires to please them.

But, as I said before, she thought about it and mentioned that it felt disingenuous, and she hasn't brought it up again.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Sean

Wow, I am married to my wife and CA???

This is crazy, Chris!!!

Notice the law of Ohio states,

The most blatant declaration of this fact that I have ever found is a brochure entitled "With This Ring I Thee Wed." It is found in county courthouses across Ohio where people go to obtain their marriage licenses. It is published by the Ohio State Bar Association. [B]The opening paragraph under the subtitle "Marriage Vows" states, "Actually, when you repeat your marriage vows you enter into a legal contract. There are three parties to that contract. 1.You; 2. Your husband or wife, as the case may be; and 3. the State of Ohio."

In the state's own words:

There are three parties to that contract. 1.You; 2. Your husband or wife, as the case may be; and 3. the State of Ohio."

God a ISN'T legally a party to civil marriage in Ohio. It's strictly the couple and the STATE. To claim God is a party to that contract has no legal recognition. And according to Burk, it would violate that statute and be just as "illegal" as a covenant marriage. Lol

And this is why Caesar isn't beholden to obey God's will regarding marriage, property, divorce, remarriage, or gay marriage in the civil marriage contract.

The covenant between a free man and a free woman can be built entirely on their Christian faith. In addition, the church would have far more influence regarding helping a couple find reconciliation WITHOUT the unbelieving courts and attorneys in the way.

With all this in mind, consider the UPCI Articles of Faith under Conscientious Scruples:

"According to the Word of God, we firmly believe and hold that the people of God
should have no connection whatever with secret societies or any other organization or
body wherein there is a fellowship with unbelievers, bound by an oath (James 5:12;
II Corinthians 6:14-18)."

Is the state a believer? Are the civil courts "believing"? Nope.