For those who want to know...RULES at my church!

[The Mrs]

Originally Posted by SISTER Murphy

Truly, I think your understanding is faulty, and your insight is skewed, so there is no telling what you might say, but it don't make it so just because you say so.

And it doesn't make it NOT so just because YOU say so... *sigh*

My head is no longer buried in the sand Roxie...I can spot a leader with spiritually abusive tendencies a mile away now. It's not hard to recognize the roots and the whys and the hows once you've walked a decade in my shoes.

It's almost unbelievable to me that you would attack my understanding and insight. If anyone has skewed insight and faulty understanding it would be you...who apparently have never been in my shoes.

Enjoy our rosie view Roxie...

[rgcraig]

Originally Posted by rgcraig

It's understood that sometimes when you are too close to something you can't see things as clearly.

The Mrs, see above. Roxie is within a circle and when you are in that circle it's all you can see.

Remember that movie that Jim Carrey starred in where they all lived under a giant bubble and thought everything, then found out it was just a TV show (The Truman Show)?

[rgcraig]

Sister Breezer - - as you can read here many have been in your shoes.

It's healing to know that you aren't alone.

[Thad]

Originally Posted by SisBeezer

wow i have been reading this thread for almost an hour now, it is incredible. and i was beginning to think i was one of the only ones who had been through such a mess. i was in two different churches like this. believe me, they are very real and very abusive.

the first church i was in, here are some of the rules:
1) no one under any circumstance could wear the color red, or own anything that was red, no red cars, nothing
2) i was not married by the time i moved to this church, so i was required to give the pastor, keys to my house, my car, he had his name put on my bank account. single women could not even run to the grocery store alone.
3) besides the normal you cant cut your hair rule, they had it, if you were 14 or under you were required to wear your hair down. no pony tails, no bows, no clips, nothing. after 14 you were required to wear your hair up at all times until you married. then you could wear your hair down, only in the presence of your spouse. only thing allowed in your hair was bobby pins. not even hair spray was allowed.
4) you could not purchase anything or take a job without the pastors approval and when you first move there or join that church, if he didnt like your job, or home or car, you were forced to change it, imediately.
5) under no circumstances was a single person allowed to have any visitor in their home unless it was same sexed relatives. i was under constant watch because i was a single mother with two sons. he at one point tried to force me to move my sons out of my home, because he said it did not look right for boys to live with a single lady (omg i was their mother!)
6) no sports were allowed at all for anyone at any time. you couldnt even go in your own yard and play catch with your own children and heaven forbid if you shot a basket!
7) they allowed no dating at all. if a guy liked a girl, he met with the pastor for a year, then the pastor went to the girls parents if he approved, and told them that he had her husband. then the marriage was planned between the pastor and parents. after marriage, he said when they could have children and when they couldnt.

i could go on but i am sure this one post wouldnt hold it all. sigh the next church was just as bad, almost the same rules stated applied, plus a few new ones

1) no electronic devices were allowed, no tv, no cell phone, no computer, no radio, no MICROWAVES even, we were required to use wind up alarm clocks even!!
2) if you wanted to go out to eat after a service, you were only allowed to go with your immediate family, and had to order it to take home.
3) under no circumstance were you ever allowed to visit another church, OF ANY KIND! i made the mistake of visiting a revival that a friend from work was going to at her church, and they were apostolic! i wont say what i went through over that one.
4) we were not allowed to go to any kind of doctor, dentist or anyone in the medical profession, no medication is allowed at any time, not so much as an asprin.

anyways the list is endless. what made me finally leave and never go back was, one night around 3am, the pastor came into my home, i was in bed asleep as was my youngest son, he was 15 at the time. the pastor drug my son out of his bed, with the help of four other elders, they took him out into the street into the church building that was across the street and beat him from head to toe. when i asked as to why this was happening, i was told that God told him that my son was watching porn on a tv hidden in his closet! there was no tv anywhere in my home at the time, for we were not allowed any electronics.

this is very real, and there are so many that are being spiritually abused at the hands of so called pastors. if you have not experience this you need to thank God that he protected you, but for many this is very real and very damaging. dont look down on those who leave the churches all together because of this. these kinds of abuses are the worst. its one thing to be abused by friends or family, but when you are abused by your pastor and church it does something that is not easily healed. its easy to sit and pass judgement on us, but until you have walked in our shoes you have no idea just how deep this pain goes.

*** AFF, I BEG YOU TO READ THIS POST ***

Sis Beezer, in all of the 5 years I have been on the forum, I have NEVER read such a awful bunch of mess in my life!!!!

I am going to PM several people i know on this forum- they have got to see this post. I am shaking!! i want to know why you did not report this man to the police ????? you STILL need to report him!!!! you poor poor lady!! i am so sorry for what you have been through.

Just know this, there are some on this forum that are so deep in denial that they will accuse you of lying. Don't worry about it! most of us here will support you and pray for you! we have you back sis !

[Thad]

I am still stunned over this!

I don't even know what to say --- yet

but i do have more to say on this one !


Sis beezer, i am so so sorry. i could almost cry for you people

[rgcraig]

Originally Posted by Thad

I am still stunned over this!

I don't even know what to say --- yet

but i do have more to say on this one !


Sis beezer, i am so so sorry. i could almost cry for you people

It's so sad and we all understand it's not the norm, but that doesn't mean that it's not out there.

Originally Posted by SisBeezer

wow i have been reading this thread for almost an hour now, it is incredible. and i was beginning to think i was one of the only ones who had been through such a mess. i was in two different churches like this. believe me, they are very real and very abusive.

the first church i was in, here are some of the rules:
1) no one under any circumstance could wear the color red, or own anything that was red, no red cars, nothing
2) i was not married by the time i moved to this church, so i was required to give the pastor, keys to my house, my car, he had his name put on my bank account. single women could not even run to the grocery store alone.
3) besides the normal you cant cut your hair rule, they had it, if you were 14 or under you were required to wear your hair down. no pony tails, no bows, no clips, nothing. after 14 you were required to wear your hair up at all times until you married. then you could wear your hair down, only in the presence of your spouse. only thing allowed in your hair was bobby pins. not even hair spray was allowed.
4) you could not purchase anything or take a job without the pastors approval and when you first move there or join that church, if he didnt like your job, or home or car, you were forced to change it, imediately.
5) under no circumstances was a single person allowed to have any visitor in their home unless it was same sexed relatives. i was under constant watch because i was a single mother with two sons. he at one point tried to force me to move my sons out of my home, because he said it did not look right for boys to live with a single lady (omg i was their mother!)
6) no sports were allowed at all for anyone at any time. you couldnt even go in your own yard and play catch with your own children and heaven forbid if you shot a basket!
7) they allowed no dating at all. if a guy liked a girl, he met with the pastor for a year, then the pastor went to the girls parents if he approved, and told them that he had her husband. then the marriage was planned between the pastor and parents. after marriage, he said when they could have children and when they couldnt.

i could go on but i am sure this one post wouldnt hold it all. sigh the next church was just as bad, almost the same rules stated applied, plus a few new ones

1) no electronic devices were allowed, no tv, no cell phone, no computer, no radio, no MICROWAVES even, we were required to use wind up alarm clocks even!!
2) if you wanted to go out to eat after a service, you were only allowed to go with your immediate family, and had to order it to take home.
3) under no circumstance were you ever allowed to visit another church, OF ANY KIND! i made the mistake of visiting a revival that a friend from work was going to at her church, and they were apostolic! i wont say what i went through over that one.
4) we were not allowed to go to any kind of doctor, dentist or anyone in the medical profession, no medication is allowed at any time, not so much as an asprin.

anyways the list is endless. what made me finally leave and never go back was, one night around 3am, the pastor came into my home, i was in bed asleep as was my youngest son, he was 15 at the time. the pastor drug my son out of his bed, with the help of four other elders, they took him out into the street into the church building that was across the street and beat him from head to toe. when i asked as to why this was happening, i was told that God told him that my son was watching porn on a tv hidden in his closet! there was no tv anywhere in my home at the time, for we were not allowed any electronics.

this is very real, and there are so many that are being spiritually abused at the hands of so called pastors. if you have not experience this you need to thank God that he protected you, but for many this is very real and very damaging. dont look down on those who leave the churches all together because of this. these kinds of abuses are the worst. its one thing to be abused by friends or family, but when you are abused by your pastor and church it does something that is not easily healed. its easy to sit and pass judgement on us, but until you have walked in our shoes you have no idea just how deep this pain goes.

OH Sis somehow I missed your post before now...your experience makes mine look like nothing...not to mean mine was not painful...but my pastor was liberal compared to yours....

I pray your healing and God is showing you that it was correct to leave...we should never tolerate abuse no matter who it comes from! Would sure be nice to sit down over coffee and talk....here is a hug in the mean time...

Originally Posted by MrsMcD

Throughout this entire thread, I felt that you were over all this. You wouldn't have been able to post as you did, if you were not over it. I never felt it was a bashing thread toward anyone. I guess some folks don't like the truth spoken.

Thank you sis...that does mean a lot to me....I am healing, but I think there are going to always be some pain at times...I am just thankful to be free....to be me...to know I am loved...the others that I know that have left that church are all damaged to a point...I know there were people that were raised in UPC that have left because of these things....its really so sad...the potential for such an awesome church is there if only they would allow the light to shine and truly seek God for direction and restoration! I love those people...I love my old pastor and the whole family...I miss them very much....I pray for them....

[The Mrs]

Originally Posted by rgcraig

The Mrs, see above. Roxie is within a circle and when you are in that circle it's all you can see.

Remember that movie that Jim Carrey starred in where they all lived under a giant bubble and thought everything, then found out it was just a TV show (The Truman Show)?

LOL...yes, I've seen that show, and I understand.

I also understand why it's almost absolutely unbelievable to her...she knows who we are talking about, but my guess is she is only an acquaintance, not a good, close friend of theirs. I will say this; they are some of the kindest, gentlest, wisest people I know. But it doesn't change their leadership ability. This is how they were taught to run a church, and have gathered through the years what it takes to keep people 'saved'. They put their whole hearts into it. But it doesn't make it right. It's still controlling with cult-like tendencies. I'm sure that if they knew that, they would make changes immediately.

Another factor is, these were not 'set in stone' rules. If you were to go up to their face and ask, 'Do you demand your people to consult with you before they make a major purchase?' I'm sure they'd say no. They didn't DEMAND anything. It all came subliminally through messages. It would be the story of the lady who went on vacation without asking 'permission' from the pastor first who was badly injured in a car wreck. If she had asked the pastor first, and he could have prayed about it, then surely God would have directed him and impressed on him 'yeah' or 'nay' as to whether it would be a good idea or not. He could have saved her from that terrible wreck.

I remember one time one of the elders who had been there for YEARS getting up and saying, 'If you go on vacation, and didn't consult with the pastor first, and you get in a wreck, don't you DARE go calling the pastor and ask him to come pray for you.' At the time, I remember amening it on the outside, but on the inside, I think something died in me. It shocked me and hurt me, but I didn't realize it at the time.

Looking from the outside in, you would never guess these kinds of things were being 'taught'. But they were. I can't tell you how many times I've heard the verse 'Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls'. I trusted them completely, totally, and blindly. Without question.

I think one of the main problems with how things were running when we left was that it bred fear, even among the saints. You couldn't even hardly fellowship with any of the saints in your own church for fear that someone would be offended by something someone did wrong, and even worse, our children molested, or commit adultery among ourselves. These were the SAINTS. Those who you labor amongst. Those who should be your best friends and help through the years. Those who were supposed to be 'holy'. I understand the need for caution, but it went overboard to assume distrust first. Looking back on it now, it really saddens me. We were all such good friends, but it became all very superficial because of the distrust.

[ThePastorsCoach]

Originally Posted by SisBeezer

wow i have been reading this thread for almost an hour now, it is incredible. and i was beginning to think i was one of the only ones who had been through such a mess. i was in two different churches like this. believe me, they are very real and very abusive.

the first church i was in, here are some of the rules:
1) no one under any circumstance could wear the color red, or own anything that was red, no red cars, nothing
2) i was not married by the time i moved to this church, so i was required to give the pastor, keys to my house, my car, he had his name put on my bank account. single women could not even run to the grocery store alone.
3) besides the normal you cant cut your hair rule, they had it, if you were 14 or under you were required to wear your hair down. no pony tails, no bows, no clips, nothing. after 14 you were required to wear your hair up at all times until you married. then you could wear your hair down, only in the presence of your spouse. only thing allowed in your hair was bobby pins. not even hair spray was allowed.
4) you could not purchase anything or take a job without the pastors approval and when you first move there or join that church, if he didnt like your job, or home or car, you were forced to change it, imediately.
5) under no circumstances was a single person allowed to have any visitor in their home unless it was same sexed relatives. i was under constant watch because i was a single mother with two sons. he at one point tried to force me to move my sons out of my home, because he said it did not look right for boys to live with a single lady (omg i was their mother!)
6) no sports were allowed at all for anyone at any time. you couldnt even go in your own yard and play catch with your own children and heaven forbid if you shot a basket!
7) they allowed no dating at all. if a guy liked a girl, he met with the pastor for a year, then the pastor went to the girls parents if he approved, and told them that he had her husband. then the marriage was planned between the pastor and parents. after marriage, he said when they could have children and when they couldnt.

i could go on but i am sure this one post wouldnt hold it all. sigh the next church was just as bad, almost the same rules stated applied, plus a few new ones

1) no electronic devices were allowed, no tv, no cell phone, no computer, no radio, no MICROWAVES even, we were required to use wind up alarm clocks even!!
2) if you wanted to go out to eat after a service, you were only allowed to go with your immediate family, and had to order it to take home.
3) under no circumstance were you ever allowed to visit another church, OF ANY KIND! i made the mistake of visiting a revival that a friend from work was going to at her church, and they were apostolic! i wont say what i went through over that one.
4) we were not allowed to go to any kind of doctor, dentist or anyone in the medical profession, no medication is allowed at any time, not so much as an asprin.

anyways the list is endless. what made me finally leave and never go back was, one night around 3am, the pastor came into my home, i was in bed asleep as was my youngest son, he was 15 at the time. the pastor drug my son out of his bed, with the help of four other elders, they took him out into the street into the church building that was across the street and beat him from head to toe. when i asked as to why this was happening, i was told that God told him that my son was watching porn on a tv hidden in his closet! there was no tv anywhere in my home at the time, for we were not allowed any electronics.

this is very real, and there are so many that are being spiritually abused at the hands of so called pastors. if you have not experience this you need to thank God that he protected you, but for many this is very real and very damaging. dont look down on those who leave the churches all together because of this. these kinds of abuses are the worst. its one thing to be abused by friends or family, but when you are abused by your pastor and church it does something that is not easily healed. its easy to sit and pass judgement on us, but until you have walked in our shoes you have no idea just how deep this pain goes.

Go to the DA and the media and have him arrested and then sue the pants off the nut case. That place needs to be shut down and he needs to be in PRISON! Where is this - I will be happy to contact the media there and have him put on the front page of the paper and on the news tonight!