The Persecution of Women in the Church

[MissBrattified]

Okay, I tried. I read to post #123, and now I'm thinking: Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah *deep breath* blah blah blah blah.

So here are my opinions: (whether they relate to the thread or not)

1. Some women have experienced abuse at the hands of Apostolic men.
2. Some of those women blame the church as a whole for their abuse, at the very least for creating an environment that could support male dominance which can support abuse.
3. Some women have never experienced abuse at the hands of Apostolic men.
4. Some of those women are ridiculed because they have on rose colored glasses and paint mental roses on the jerks they go to church with, thereby missing the stench of abuse that reeks from the perpetrators of said abuse.
5. Porn and something about modesty.
6. I've really lost my train of thought.

Okay, try again....

My church friends are both male and female, and I like all of them. I think all of them are just great! I admire them, respect them, and don't like to think that someone would misjudge their character simply because of the church they attend. I don't know of any abusers among them.

I have witnessed one particular pastor name-calling, yelling and posturing from the pulpit...I would call that abusive behavior. I didn't let it oppress me. I removed myself from his presence, authority and influence. Well, my husband helped remove me. My lovely, strong, protective, Apostolic husband. He (the pastor) persecuted me. But I'm smart enough to differentiate in my mind and come to the conclusion that HE was abusive, and that it would be prejudicial and stereotyping, and downright racial profiling to say that ALL Apostolic men are abusive based on that one experience.

P.S. He wasn't/isn't UPCI.

[Newman]

Originally Posted by Coonskinner

Thank you.

I don't think the pontifications and criticisms of the Church are all that impacting coming from a man who has this opinion about the Word of God.

I actually have a hard time relating to the idea that attacking the position of the early church fathers (the forerunners of the Catholic Church) is the equivilent of attacking "The Church."

I found CH's point of view that it takes a great mother or great grandmother to produce a great man the more interesting thought to consider. I wish someone else could have ran with that....

Can a man became great if his mother or grandmother ain't? Can a great father make up for a bad mother? Is the woman indeed the heart of the home? Is it true that the hand that rocks the cradle rules the world?

What does Scripture show and tell us?

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Dantheman1

Good word, and we all look forward to the day when we will not experience anxiety nor any offensive spirit that walks this earth.
THough I can't speak for Crazyhomie, I would like to adress your last question, having been reared in Pentecostal roots, I often witnessed in our Hispanic churches, the "submission" to male authority by the veiling of women in our churches, only teaching positions that did not threaten men( to children, only), and forbidding them to preach other than an occaisonal testimonial. Their response to this was raising up their own women who worked within these boundries to do the work of church, sometimes accomplishing more than their male counterparts. My 80 year old mother being a gracious example of this. Times have changed, but they still require headcovering. Women still do not preach in these congregations (no matter what credentials they hold). As a man, I'm blessed we are not like the world today that highly regards power driven women who immasculate men, and then celibrates. God bless all our sanctified Grandmothers, Mothers and wives (if you are fortunate enough to have them).

You ever think maybe the reason they require head coverings was because they believe the bible says so? Say they are wrong. Say they misinterpret the word, but don't you think it's rather judgemental to say you know their ulterior motive is submission to men?

[Felicity]

Originally Posted by seguidordejesus

I like Felicity.

It seems sometimes like her experience has been one of two things, or both, or something else entirely :

1 - Utopian (or close)
OR
2 - She hasn't let the bad stuff get her down, or has gotten over it.

I sort of envy her if it's the first (but not quite) and admire her greatly if it's the second.

Makes me want to move back to the land of my ancestors (Canada) although the grass is seldom greener on the other side.

I kind of have a lot to say about this, but the thoughts won't form into words. I just wish that we could all concentrate on constructive things and not dwell on the past.

My experience is really a combination of both 1 and 2.

Thanks bro!

My departing comments on this thread.

Folks, this has been fun, but not what I had intended. Newman said it best in his last thread; the thread was originally designed to address the issue of "Eve being the mother of all living" and how Satan would attempt to destroy her. The church I was referring to was not your local assembly, but the historical church that reaches across the globe and from generation to generation.
How the early church fathers may or may not have contributed to the spirit of persecution against the female gender. Those who believe that women have not and are still not being persecuted just don't have a global view and proper understanding of what Satan is up to.

I live in a very poor section of the country and abuse is rampant. Domestic abuse and violence against women is at an all time high. Incest, rape, molestation is staggering. I can't tell you the women I've prayed for at the altars who have been molested by their fathers. It seems like a daily occurance.
If 15 year olds who are carrying their fathers babies is not persecution against women, I don't know what is. My heart bleeds for a church that will rise to the occasion and stand against this spiritual agression.

As a pastor in this community, we are actively working to help and mend these broken souls.

The righteous church should be involved in helping and extending a hand to this crticial area of need in our society. We have to stop shouting and jumping and start caring, loving and giving. Open our hearts, our homes, get dirty and involved in what Jesus died for.

We must be willing to look beyond ourselves and see the real world for whom Jesus died. I love the Apostolic faith, but a name means nothng to the crack addict selling her body for a $2.00 hit. The incident of AIDS in my part of the country is some of the highest. I'm sure if some of you checked you would be amazed at the statistics locally.

Globally; Bosnia, Iran, Saudi Arabia, the slave trade, muslim oppression, mormonism, domestic abuse and violence, etc. was also on my mind and I hoped would have been addressed.

I'm new to the thread, but honestly I don't know if I'll be back. I have some really interesting questions still lingering, but the offense and personal negativity is astounding. The inability to have open dialogue without offense is lacking. I'm guilty also and will search my heart as well.

Satan is interested in destroying Eve. I've seen too much of it and you can't convince me otherwise. God Bless.

[Rhoni]

Originally Posted by crazyhomie

My departing comments on this thread.

Folks, this has been fun, but not what I had intended. Newman said it best in his last thread; the thread was originally designed to address the issue of "Eve being the mother of all living" and how Satan would attempt to destroy her. The church I was referring to was not your local assembly, but the historical church that reaches across the globe and from generation to generation.
How the early church fathers may or may not have contributed to the spirit of persecution against the female gender. Those who believe that women have not and are still not being persecuted just don't have a global view and proper understanding of what Satan is up to.

I live in a very poor section of the country and abuse is rampant. Domestic abuse and violence against women is at an all time high. Incest, rape, molestation is staggering. I can't tell you the women I've prayed for at the altars who have been molested by their fathers. It seems like a daily occurance.
If 15 year olds who are carrying their fathers babies is not persecution against women, I don't know what is. My heart bleeds for a church that will rise to the occasion and stand against this spiritual agression.

As a pastor in this community, we are actively working to help and mend these broken souls.

The righteous church should be involved in helping and extending a hand to this crticial area of need in our society. We have to stop shouting and jumping and start caring, loving and giving. Open our hearts, our homes, get dirty and involved in what Jesus died for.

We must be willing to look beyond ourselves and see the real world for whom Jesus died. I love the Apostolic faith, but a name means nothng to the crack addict selling her body for a $2.00 hit. The incident of AIDS in my part of the country is some of the highest. I'm sure if some of you checked you would be amazed at the statistics locally.

Globally; Bosnia, Iran, Saudi Arabia, the slave trade, muslim oppression, mormonism, domestic abuse and violence, etc. was also on my mind and I hoped would have been addressed.

I'm new to the thread, but honestly I don't know if I'll be back. I have some really interesting questions still lingering, but the offense and personal negativity is astounding. The inability to have open dialogue without offense is lacking. I'm guilty also and will search my heart as well.

Satan is interested in destroying Eve. I've seen too much of it and you can't convince me otherwise. God Bless.

Dear Crazy,

Don't give up on posting these good thoughts. You are correct; many people cannot dialogue about issues without personal negativity but don't be fooled. Their true colors show and there are lurkers who need to hear what you have to say. They will never come to your defense at least publically but will PM or do research on their own to make changes in their thought process and behaviors.

The key players on this forum have a pattern that can but will not be broken and if you stay around a while you will catch on. Don't take it personally or you will be constantly offended...just take it for what it is and ignor what you don't appreciate. Works for me.:sshhh

Have a blessed day, Rhoni

[Barb]

Originally Posted by crazyhomie

Those who believe that women have not and are still not being persecuted just don't have a global view and proper understanding of what Satan is up to.

.

Unfortunately, Homie, any good points you may have made have been clouded by your unfounded assumptions in the above quote.

You are as wrong and one can be.

I could tell you stories that would leave you speechless, but the wrong doing by a handful does not a conspiracy or direct persecution make.

Is there a satanic attack?! You bet!! It's against humanity as a whole...it's against anything godly and right...it's against the men and women of God who are taking a stand for holiness of the heart and righteousness in every area...it's against the home...it's against every solid thing the Bible is FOR!!

Just because I refuse to say that persecution is the proper word is NOT an indication my head is in the sand and I do not see rape or abuse or neglect or any of it.

It simply means, as I tried to say yesterday, that when I think of persecution, I think of Bro. and Sis. Teklemarian who stood face to face with the government telling them to renounce Jesus Christ or they would throw their two year old out of the window.

They would not renounce their Faith, and their child was murdered.

I think about the missionary in the 70s who was having breakfast with his family when the men came to the door and asked him to step outside.

They took him to the gate of his home and said to renounce Jesus Christ...when he refused, a machete severed his head from his body and was placed on the fence post.

Have there been abuses...surely!! But who among us has suffered in this manner?!

But I know that posting this is like whistling in the graveyard...you really aren't listening. If you wouldn't listen to those more articulate than I, you won't hear me.

[Rhoni]

Sis. Barb,

Persecution isn't just about the obvious putting your life in danger as has been brought out by many. Persecution takes many forms.

You have valid points about satan being on an all out attack on humanity as a whole, but I believe Crazyhomie has just as valid points that if satan attacks the women then he has the families.

Even the 'world' considers women among the discriminated against for centuries, right along with others who have been captive, bound, and held back.

One does not have to be right and one wrong...there are valid points on all sides. We all see through the glasses of our own experience in thse matters. if we unite instead of separating then we can make a difference in our world and being aware of satan's devices is the first offensive plan of attack.

Blessings, Rhoni

P.S. You are among the most articulate so I don't know why you don't consider yourself as such.

[Barb]

Originally Posted by Rhoni

Sis. Barb,

Persecution isn't just about the obvious putting your life in danger as has been brought out by many. Persecution takes many forms.

You have valid points about satan being on an all out attack on humanity as a whole, but I believe Crazyhomie has just as valid points that if satan attacks the women then he has the families.

Even the 'world' considers women among the discriminated against for centuries, right along with others who have been captive, bound, and held back.

One does not have to be right and one wrong...there are valid points on all sides. We all see through the glasses of our own experience in tese matters. if we unite instead of separte then we can make a difference in our world.

Blessings, Rhoni

P.S. You are among the most articulate so I don't know why you don't consider yourself as such.

Thank you for the compliment, but I often feel out of my element and wonder from day to day why I remain.

I agree that there are valid points on all sides. Unfortunately, in the heat of whatever, they are often overlooked and things get out of hand...all in the name of love you understand.

Discrimination has been with us from the beginning of time, but to call it persecution from the Church...I will NEVER say that!!

But oh how I wish the Body would and could unite, Rhonda...

[Rhoni]

Originally Posted by Barb

Thank you for the compliment, but I often feel out of my element and wonder from day to day why I remain.

I agree that there are valid points on all sides. Unfortunately, in the heat of whatever, they are often overlooked and things get out of hand...all in the name of love you understand.

Discrimination has been with us from the beginning of time, but to call it persecution from the Church...I will NEVER say that!!

But oh how I wish the Body would and could unite, Rhonda...

I think Christ summed it up well...the commandments can all be summed up in this: Loving your neighbor as yourself. If we were just full of mercy, grace, and love...there would be no issues.

Barb,

We realize with our heads but sometimes not with our hearts...the church is the sum of it's members/people. Persecution often comes as the world affects the church. Discrimination and denegration of women is in the body as one member exalts themselves over another. Wouldn't it be wonderful if the church affected the world to a greater extent than vica versa?

Love & Prayers, Rhonda