The Difference Between the PCI of the Merger and the Current Counterfeits

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Ignore 1 John .. you're call, Theo ...

Felicity ... Theo doesn't think you would have entered the Kingdom at age 6 .... if God, forbid you would have gone home ... but I do ....and His Word does too. He just thinks you were touched by God.

I'm not ignoring anything, rather taking all into account.

I was touched many times before I received His Spirit.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by Theophilus

I'm not ignoring anything, rather taking all into account.

I was touched many times before I received His Spirit.

Theo ... you're right ... will you sing w/ me .... click here for accompaniment

1. Sing the wondrous love of Jesus;
sing his mercy and his grace.
In the mansions bright and blessed
he'll prepare for us a place.

Refrain:
When we all get to heaven,
what a day of rejoicing that will be!
When we all see Jesus,
we'll sing and shout the victory!

2. While we walk the pilgrim pathway,
clouds will overspread the sky;
but when traveling days are over,
not a shadow, not a sigh.
(Refrain)

3. Let us then be true and faithful,
trusting, serving every day;
just one glimpse of him in glory
will the toils of life repay.
(Refrain>

4. Onward to the prize before us!
Soon his beauty we'll behold;
soon the pearly gates will open;
we shall tread the streets of gold.
(Refrain)

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

addendum ....

man's distractions can send folks to hell and never get know God's ways.

You are making the same mistake of so many others...you give too much power to the distractions and mistakes of man.

It will not be a valid excuse in that day.

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by RevDWW

HAve you ever noticed that Peter didn't preach a "seeker friendly" sermon on the day of Pentecost? Man he point out that they murdered Jesus. That wouldn't go over well in some of the "Big, Easy" churches you hear about.

Acts 2.21 "And it shall come to pass that whoever calls on the name of the Lord SHALL be saved."

Then Acts 2.37 "...Men and brethren, what shall we do?"

vs.38 "...Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the GIFT of the Holy
Spirit."

vs.39 "For the PROMISE is to you and your children, and to all that are afar off, as many as the Lord our God shall call."

Acts 2.21 actually says what we do to be SAVED, call on the name of the Lord. Peter does instruct the believer to repent and to be baptized, but DOES not say this saves you.

The GIFT of the Holy Spirit is the PROMISE, this is a sovereign work of God, the seeking, begging and demanding that someone "get it" is not biblical. The infilling of the Spirit is totally up to the Lord.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by Theophilus

You are making the same mistake of so many others...you give too much power to the distractions and mistakes of man.

It will not be a valid excuse in that day.

I've got my eyes on the Author and Finisher of our faith ... it's the unchurched and my weaker brother that I look out for ... however ... thanks for suggesting that I'm making excuses.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by crakjak

Acts 2.21 "And it shall come to pass that whoever calls on the name of the Lord SHALL be saved."

Then Acts 2.37 "...Men and brethren, what shall we do?"

vs.38 "...Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the GIFT of the Holy
Spirit."

vs.39 "For the PROMISE is to you and your children, and to all that are afar off, as many as the Lord our God shall call."

Acts 2.21 actually says what we do to be SAVED, call on the name of the Lord. Peter does instruct the believer to repent and to be baptized, but DOES not say this saves you.

The GIFT of the Holy Spirit is the PROMISE, this is a sovereign work of God, the seeking, begging and demanding that someone "get it" is not biblical. The infilling of the Spirit is totally up to the Lord.

Why do we bother ???? We're counterfeit ... see thread title.

[Truly Blessed]

Originally Posted by Coonskinner

I have to chuckle when I see these modern backsliders calling themselves adherents of the "PCI" doctrine.

They don't have any more in common with the old PCI men than modern liberal democrats do with the architects of the New Deal. They both claim a connection with a heritage they have absolutely nothing in common with, and simply want to trade on a name that is respected.

I have to chuckle when I see anyone make general broad statements about other ministers of the gospel. I am acquainted with many preachers who do not believe the PAJC doctrine who have no idea what PCI is and they certainly don't claim a connection with any PCI heritage. I for one, grew up in a Full Gospel Church and have no connection with the PCI even though my understanding of the doctrine of salvation is now labelled as PCI.

Originally Posted by Coonskinner

The men of the PCI were mostly men who had come out of denominations that were trinitarian, and had received a revelation of Truth.

They preached their revelation with such passion and fervor that no one would have known by their preaching that they differed from the PAJC men, for the most part.

All oneness Pentecostals have their roots in trinitarian denominations and while the pioneers of Oneness Pentecostalism left or were forced out of their denominations because they had a revelation, most Oneness Pentecostals living today were simply indoctrinated with Oneness Pentecostalism, which IMO explains why they may not preach it with the same passion and fervor as the first and even second generation did.

Originally Posted by Coonskinner

This was because they had made a move toward Truth and revelation.

They loved this New Birth, Oneness Message.

This new breed are a totally different kettle of fish.

They are moving away from Truth.

These statements are a bit confusing to me. First of all, I notice that you state these PCI adherents had "made a move toward truth and revelation" leaving the impression that they hadn't actually received a revelation of the truth. They had simply moved in that direction.

Secondly, according to you this generation of what you label as PCI adherents "are moving away from truth". How can someone move away from truth if what they believed wasn't truth to begin with in your opinion?

Originally Posted by Coonskinner

They are embarassed to be associated with strong doctrinal men. They would rather identify with those proclaiming an easy-believism message than with the Apostolic church.

So when you try and get them to discuss the doctrine of salvation, they spout clouds of obfuscatory smoke about how it is Jesus who saves, and it is a journey, and blah blah blah.

Nothing solid.

And they call themselves adherents of the "PCI Doctrine."

Once again I find this confusing. On the one hand you are alleging that PCI adherents are embarrassed to associate with strong doctrinal men, while on the other hand you allege they "claim a connection with a heritage they have absolutely nothing in common with, and simply want to trade on a name that is respected".

Originally Posted by Coonskinner

Well, the men of the old PCI would probably be ashamed to claim them, because they came out from long and deeply rooted belief systems and sold out to preach this Jesus Name message. It cost them something to be able to say "I'm one of them," as the old song says.

The same could be said of the pioneers who held to what is labelled PAJC adherents. If some of those preachers rose from the dead they certainly wouldn't feel comfortable in most apostolic churches today. PCI churches don't have a monopoly on compromise and superficiality.

Originally Posted by Coonskinner

Most of these slack-jawed compromisers could preach all day, and if you ran their message through a centrifuge, you couldn't distill half an ounce of good doctrine, nor figure out how to be saved.

PCI?

Yep.

Pathetic Compromising Ingrates.

Now, if that isn't clear enough, let me know and I will try and dial it down a little better for you.

While I agree that there are those who have failed to remain true to the full gospel message of faith, repentance, baptism and the gift of the Holy Ghost, I am uncomfortable any time I see someone brushing everyone with the same brush with general condemning statements such as what you make in this post. Shame on you!

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

I've got my eyes on the Author and Finisher of our faith ... it's the unchurched and my weaker brother that I look out for ... however ... thanks for suggesting that I'm making excuses.

You misunderstood.

I mean to say that there are many kinds of soil, as Jesus taught, and that there is no excuse big enough to get one out of going to hell because, for whatever reason, one chose not to follow Him and His Word.

A man that causes one to fall might well pay the price, however, we are responsible for our own actions, reactions, and salvation.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by Theophilus

You misunderstood.

I mean to say that there are many kinds of soil, as Jesus taught, and that there is no excuse big enough to get one out of going to hell because, for whatever reason, one chose not to follow Him and His Word.

A man that causes one to fall might well pay the price, however, we are responsible for our own actions, reactions, and salvation.

OY VEY .... We agree on the commandments, the actions, reactions and the penalties for disobedience ... IT'S ABOUT PRESENTATION AND SOUND DOCTRINAL INTERPRETATION ...

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Felicity ....No one has ever said it's an optional experience ... what is in question is it's presentation ....

Peter in Act 2, tells us that it is a promise and a gift, how does it become some legalistic thing everyone has to "GET"? No where does he say it saves us.

The gift is precious and of great value, but men as men do devalue it by making is something that is earned or deserved.

In the 70's while OP's were preaching the infilling as something to seek, begging and relentlessly pursue, the HS "fell" on Christians of every flavor, and He has been falling every since on folks in many places.

If we could do what we should do as believers, let them see our love and good works flowing from Christ in us, just imagine how much Holy Spirit would be falling all over the place.

Spirit infilling is a sovereign work of God, the Spirit cannot be manipulated or forced. And tongues is only one manifestation that will be much more commonplace.