Are Beards The Mark Of The Beast?

[n david]

Originally Posted by Aquila

I don't know. Even though Addison responded that way, she was genuinely upset on the way home. She told me she didn't want to go again because the church is mean. I've explained that mean people are everywhere you go. I asked her if any kids in the house churches we've been to were "mean" and she explained that sometimes they were, but, "not that kind of mean". When I probed deeper, I discovered that in the house churches kids tease and taunt about their shoes, who farted, who is smart or popular. But none ever relegated anyone to Hell over anything. It was like playground teasing. Not behaviors patterned after spiritually abusive concepts. Her assessment is still, "They look weird and they're mean." I told both of them that the people in this church were really nice people who were serious about living for God. She's picked that up from just about three to four Sunday services based on how they treated her and each other. She rambled quite a bit about things these kids said to others that they knew that just weren't right. But I told her, "no human institution is perfect".

This sounds like the stories I've read online where some liberal parent claims their small toddler has authored a well-written statement for/against _________ [fill in the blank]. And when you read it, you find out it suspiciously mimics the parent's previous comments/statements.

That's what I'm seeing here. I've read your comments about church and what you claim your daughter said, mirrors those things. I'm not saying your daughter didn't say these things. I'm just saying that what she said was not done so without hearing you complain about these very things. She's obviously heard what you've said, either to the family or what you thought was in private with your wife, and now she's parroting them.

Originally Posted by Aquila

Yes and yes. From what I gathered, the ladies seemed nice enough. She didn't elaborate. But all these conversations last about 15 minutes after service. Then everyone leaves. A few mentioned going out to eat. But we don't have the money to go out to eat all the time, and Chris doesn't like to eat fast food, so we just go home. It really feels like a show, bro. A sincere show, with meaning, and with people who truly love it, but a show nonetheless.

Some people have families and full time jobs and aren't able to invite people over for discussions which would last over an hour or two. That doesn't mean it's a show or they're fake or plastic.

The church we currently attend has services Wednesday and twice on Sunday. I work FT and usually don't have time during the week to engage in fellowship. Friday evening and Saturday are the only days I have to visit family and others -- and even then, most of the time we spend those days cleaning and doing upkeep around the house.

We've visited the home of a family in the church and have been invited to join others throughout our time there. But again, I work FT, my wife stays home with 3 year old twins and our older daughter and is usually exhausted by the time I'm home late in the afternoon. Now, if the kids were older or I didn't work FT, we'd probably do more visiting during the week.

[1ofthechosen]

Originally Posted by berkeley

We’re not obligated to follow Leviticus re: beards.

Only reason I put that is because this guy said this..
Originally Posted by randyabrown View Post
"Nowhere did the apostles tell the Jews to look like the Romans or the Romans to look like the Jews. We see all through the OT the Jews had beards."
And then:
Originally Posted by Apostolic1ness View Post
"Are you a Jew?"

To which I said:

"Lol!! If your going to follow Leviticus 19:27 follow it all the way! "YE SHALL NOT ROUND THE CORNERS OF YOUR HEADS, NEITHER SHALT THOU MAR THE CORNERS OF THY BEARD."

No manicuring it either! Either the Charlton Heston look will back from the 10 commandments, or otherwise y'all are just looking for loopholes..."

I'm not telling you to follow this but as we see earlier in this very same thread this scripture gets used to support beards today. To which I said if your going to use that, then don't just go halfway, follow all of Leviticus 19:27. I wasn't advocating the following of the law..

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by n david

This sounds like the stories I've read online where some liberal parent claims their small toddler has authored a well-written statement for/against _________ [fill in the blank]. And when you read it, you find out it suspiciously mimics the parent's previous comments/statements.

That's what I'm seeing here. I've read your comments about church and what you claim your daughter said, mirrors those things. I'm not saying your daughter didn't say these things. I'm just saying that what she said was not done so without hearing you complain about these very things. She's obviously heard what you've said, either to the family or what you thought was in private with your wife, and now she's parroting them.

Hmmm. Kids do pick up on almost everything. So, I'd not be surprised if you're right about her statement being based on something she's heard. But, I did try to let them know that this church was a good church.

Some people have families and full time jobs and aren't able to invite people over for discussions which would last over an hour or two. That doesn't mean it's a show or they're fake or plastic.

The church we currently attend has services Wednesday and twice on Sunday. I work FT and usually don't have time during the week to engage in fellowship. Friday evening and Saturday are the only days I have to visit family and others -- and even then, most of the time we spend those days cleaning and doing upkeep around the house.

We've visited the home of a family in the church and have been invited to join others throughout our time there. But again, I work FT, my wife stays home with 3 year old twins and our older daughter and is usually exhausted by the time I'm home late in the afternoon. Now, if the kids were older or I didn't work FT, we'd probably do more visiting during the week.

There are legit struggles. I can understand that.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by n david

Again, this is simply incorrect and not a true interpretation of what Paul wrote. He did not say "anyone present" can address the congregation, sing, offer a poem, etc. That is not what he wrote.

You're imposing your view of church on the text. Let's look at it in the ESV, a more literal translation:

1 Corinthians 14:26-38 English Standard Version (ESV)
26 What then, brothers? When you come together, each one has a hymn, a lesson, a revelation, a tongue, or an interpretation. Let all things be done for building up. 27 If any speak in a tongue, let there be only two or at most three, and each in turn, and let someone interpret. 28 But if there is no one to interpret, let each of them keep silent in church and speak to himself and to God. 29 Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others weigh what is said. 30 If a revelation is made to another sitting there, let the first be silent. 31 For you can all prophesy one by one, so that all may learn and all be encouraged, 32 and the spirits of prophets are subject to prophets. 33 For God is not a God of confusion but of peace.
As in all the churches of the saints, 34 the women should keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says. 35 If there is anything they desire to learn, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church.
36 Or was it from you that the word of God came? Or are you the only ones it has reached? 37 If anyone thinks that he is a prophet, or spiritual, he should acknowledge that the things I am writing to you are a command of the Lord. 38 If anyone does not recognize this, he is not recognized.

It's actually pretty plain. And when we compare to what we read about teachings and gatherings in Acts, you'll note there was a dialogue, even from the beginning, those listening to Peter were convicted and interrupted, asking, "Men and brethren, what shall we do?" It was also common place for this very mode of discussion, with teaching, questions, answers, and additional insights, to be done in the synagogues.

Not if properly interpreting 1 Cor 14.

And I think you're not properly interpreting I Corinthians 14.

[Aquila]

NDavid, have you ever been in a house church where the gifts are flowing and the body is ministering to one another? It's truly amazing. It beats just listening to one man all night. Also, you get a variety of perspectives, insights, and understandings. Most dove tail or build on one another. The entire body gathered isn't restricted to only what one man knows and can teach. The entire body combines their knowledge and understanding creating deep union in mind and spirit. I loved it when we and the younger bucks would get into a topic and be sharing our understanding and the elders would just be listening (sometimes making subtle corrections)... and then the elder would say, "Hey, let's see what Jim has to say..." Jim is a man who is almost 80 who just sat quietly listening. We'd all get quiet and Jim would smile and start talking... that man would go so deep into what God is like and what He's learned about the Bible, it would make you weep. He knew God. I mean, he personally knew God. I love it when the older folks are given a voice.

In traditional church... everyone just sits in a row of noses and listens to one man's monologue and cheers on the performance when it makes good points. The Jims of the congregation just sit there listening with everyone else, and such wisdom and knowledge is wasted. They still have so much to offer. After being in a vibrant Spirit filled house church, it doesn't even compare.

I just wish there were Spirt filled house churches near me. Right now, the only strong network is Baptist. I rolled with them for a while, but I couldn't tolerate their doctrine forever. They had no interest in Jesus name baptism or the Holy Ghost. So, it was time to break ranks and move on.

[n david]

Originally Posted by Aquila

even from the beginning, those listening to Peter were convicted and interrupted, asking, "Men and brethren, what shall we do?"

They interrupted Peter? Talk about projecting something into the text!

[n david]

Originally Posted by Aquila

NDavid, have you ever been in a house church where the gifts are flowing and the body is ministering to one another? It's truly amazing. It beats just listening to one man all night. Also, you get a variety of perspectives, insights, and understandings. Most dove tail or build on one another. The entire body gathered isn't restricted to only what one man knows and can teach. The entire body combines their knowledge and understanding creating deep union in mind and spirit. I loved it when we younger bucks would get into a topic and be sharing our understanding and the elders would just be listening, sometimes making subtle corrections... and then the elder would say, "Hey, let's see what Jim has to say." Jim is a man who is almost 80 who just sat quietly listening. We'd all get quiet and Jim would smile and start talking... that man would go so deep into what God is like and what He's learned about the Bible, it would make you weep. He knew God. I mean, he personally knew God. I love it when the older folks are given a voice.

In traditional church... everyone just sits in a row of noses and listens to one man's monologue and cheers on the performance when it makes good points. After being in a vibrant Spirit filled house church, it doesn't even compare.

This is the trinitarian, non new birth believing house church you left recently, yes?

I've attended a house church before, for about a year. We enjoyed meeting there. We also enjoy our congregation and the services we currently attend.

The fact that you would rather be in a discussion where you can talk doesn't mean congregational services are unBiblical.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by n david

This is the trinitarian, non new birth believing house church you left recently, yes?

No. It was the first house church I attended. It was Spirit filled. More "charismatic" in practice, but they were Oneness. The elder (Scott) moved to Tennessee. The members decided that they didn't have an elder fit to replace Scott, so they stopped meeting and several went back to their traditional churches.

I've attended a house church before, for about a year. We enjoyed meeting there. We also enjoy our congregation and the services we currently attend.

The fact that you would rather be in a discussion where you can talk doesn't mean congregational services are unBiblical.

I don't believe they are "sin". But do we see such a gathering in the NT? If we do, is it the norm or a less frequent occurrence? In what way were the home gatherings and the larger gathering different?

The Baptist network of house churches near me is focused on house church ministry... but they have a larger campus where they gather for general teaching. Some networks meet in the larger gatherings once a week, once a month, or once a quarter. Larger services aren't forbidden. But the house church is where the majority of teaching, growth, discipline, and body ministry takes place.

[Aquila]

But the point of all this is that one need not go to an institutional church to be saved. There are other manners of gathering. Some that are even more "biblical" than the traditional church model.

[houston]

Originally Posted by houston

My beard trimmers are in Houston. I am NOT! I have a dull blade. I shaved off my beard, my masculinity.

I am feeling very discouraged over this.

Update:

Beard is growing in nicely. I’m getting my power back... like Samson.