Tulsa Report Day One

[ForeverBlessed]

Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover

In my personal life I am considered ultra-conservative by non Apostolics, and conservative to moderate by Apostolics...

Having said that am I the only one that is troubled with the suggestion that this girl's clothing is something to be "put under the blood"??

Since when is a conservative one who casts harsh judgement on others?

No, you are not the only one... I am just too sick to comment.. I don't believe it gets any where.

[ForeverBlessed]

Originally Posted by Pastor G

I do trust her pastor totally... He is a good friend of mine and I have preached in his pulpit, he has in mine and been in pulpits with him many times...

Though I won't go into conversations I have had with him...

Just because pictures are found of her and people try their best to figure out whether they are before or after youth congress, doesn't mean it was a bad choice to use her...

Her publicists might get flack from "hollywood" as you call it for letting her be used in this fashion at this type of meeting, but it is terrible in my opinion that the youth committee would get flack from it... It certainly grabbed the kids attention... Not too many there didn't know who "dora the explorer" is... I had over 50 of mine there and they loved it and all came back on fire for God...

I am thankful that the youth committee pushes the envelope... I pastor in one of the largest city's in the country and we have to do that to keep their attention... Times change and our methods have to as well if we are going to win them and keep them...
For this girl to be likened to the likes that one on here has likened her to is appalling...

I hope her pastor and her church has shielded her from all of the "UPC" critics... If not we may succesfully lose another young person... sad!

*high five*

[Coonskinner]

The glory of God is what keeps their attention; "pushing the envelope" is a gimmick.

Some of you folks are buying the bill of goods the "Emerging Church" crowd is selling.

[Monkeyman]

Originally Posted by Coonskinner

The glory of God is what keeps their attention; "pushing the envelope" is a gimmick.

Some of you folks are buying the bill of goods the "Emerging Church" crowd is selling.

Don't knock pushing the envelope just because it's being pushed. If it goes against scripture than you have merit in criticizing it. You and I both know that there are extremes and some just criticize because it is NOT their cup of tea. I know you don't like lights (special lighting) and FX, but I have never heard you call it sinful. There are those who do. And I also know there are groups who are all show and no substance. You can actually have both if enough prayer and fasting is involved and you cover your special event with prayer of older generations. When there is unity, there can be great achievments. Our youth event last year had over 30 receive the Holy Ghost, this year we are reaching for over 50. No big deal in a lot of areas, but in our little neck of the woods it is a true blessing!

Don't criticize us...PRAY for us.

Do we push the envelope? YES
Do we attract some kids just because of it? YES
Do we present Christ and HIS message to them before they leave?YES
Will we have over 50 join His kingdom this year? YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Will we do anything contrary to God's Word? NO

We aren't offering gimmicks...we offer Jesus.

*disclaimer* And yes CS, I also recognize that these meetings can be done on the down low too and still have great results. Even I ain't that stoopid!

[Coonskinner]

Originally Posted by Monkeyman

Don't knock pushing the envelope just because it's being pushed. If it goes against scripture than you have merit in criticizing it. You and I both know that here are extremes and some just criticize because it is NOT their cup of tea. I know you don't like lights (special lighting) and FX, but I have never heard you call it sinful. There are those who do. And I also know there are groups who are all show and no substance. You can actually have both if enough prayer and fasting is involved and you cover your special event with prayer of older generations. When there is unity, there can be great achievments. Our youth event last year had over 30 recieve the Holy Ghost, this year we are reaching for over 50. No big deal in a lot of areas, but in our little neck of the woods it is a true blessing!

Don't criticize us...PRAY for us.

Do we push the envelope? YES
Do we attract some kids just because of it? YES
Do we present Christ and HIS message to them before they leave?YES
Will we have over 50 join His kingdom this year? YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Will we do anything contrary to God's word? NO

We aren't offering a bill of goods...we offer Jesus.

Monk, it is really pointless to have this kind of argument.

A lot of that stuff that I don't care for, I don't bother to quarrel with folks about, and you are right. I don't think I have called it "sinful."

It is my personal opinion that there are some long term affects that are going to be reaped from re-creating an atmosphere that smacks of worldy events like rock concerts, etc. and attempting to merge that with worship.

In our church, we do a variety of music. A lot of it I don't care for. It isn't really to my personal taste, because I am pretty much an anachronism.

But I allow it because it blesses others, and I am not the only one in the building.

I do draw the line at some types of music that I don't feel are at all conducive to worship or reverence, and I will absolutely not tolerate any "Jesus is my boyfriend" stuff.

Worship can be and should be demonstrative. We shout, dance, run, sometimes roll on the floor. But there are also times for seasons of reverent silence, for weeping in the Presence of God. And an atmosphere that caters to a generation's penchant for sensory overload seems counter-productive to what we are trying to do where I pastor.

This is difficult to express, because some of it more of a discernment issue, and hard to describe in this context when lines have been crossed.

I am not for trying to recreate the 50's, and I am not against everything innovative.

I am just really leary about too much reliance on gimmicks that cater to the senses.

[Monkeyman]

Originally Posted by Coonskinner

Monk, it is really pointless to have this kind of argument.

A lot of that stuff that I don't care for, I don't bother to quarrel with folks about, and you are right. I don't think I have called it "sinful."

It is my personal opinion that there are some long term affects that are going to be reaped from re-creating an atmosphere that smacks of worldy events like rock concerts, etc. and attempting to merge that with worship.

In our church, we do a variety of music. A lot of it I don't care for. It isn't really to my personal taste, because I am pretty much an anachronism.

But I allow it because it blesses others, and I am not the only one in the building.

I do draw the line at some types of music that I don't feel are at all conducive to worship or reverence, and I will absolutely not tolerate any "Jesus is my boyfriend" stuff.

Worship can be and should be demonstrative. We shout, dance, run, sometimes roll on the floor. But there are also times for seasons of reverent silence, for weeping in the Presence of God. And an atmosphere that caters to a generation's penchant for sensory overload seems counter-productive to what we are trying to do where I pastor.

This is difficult to express, because some of it more of a discernment issue, and hard to describe in this context when lines have been crossed.

I am not for trying to recreate the 50's, and I am not against everything innovative.

I am just really leary about too much reliance on gimmicks that cater to the senses.

And I can see nothing wrong with your post!

BTW...in our case, we start on a high...then we bring it waaaay down for both reverance and solitude, so the young person can actually think about what is happening to them, whenever we know it is ready, we bring on our Man of God to break the Word to them. It has worked for "us"..when that ceases, so shall we!

Are groups really doing the boyfriend song??? Sounds kinda gay, lol!

[Coonskinner]

Originally Posted by Monkeyman

And I can see nothing wrong with your post!

BTW...in our case, we start on a high...then we bring it waaaay down for both reverance and solitude, so the young person can actually think about what is happening to them, whenever we know it is ready, we bring on our Man of God to break the Word to them. It has worked for "us"..when that ceases, so shall we!

Monk, I don't have a lot of faith in internet discernment, but from reading your words for a while and interacting with you, I think we are probably not as far apart in spirit as it may seem sometimes.

I think we just choose to defend and emphasize different aspects of this thing.

I think our desire and heartbeats are pretty similar.

[Monkeyman]

Originally Posted by Coonskinner

Monk, I don't have a lot of faith in internet discernment, but from reading your words for a while and interacting with you, I think we are probably not as far apart in spirit as it may seem sometimes.

I think we just choose to defend and emphasize different aspects of this thing.

I think our desire and heartbeats are pretty similar.

One thing is for sure...as long as your the head cheese at your church, and I am the chief musician at mine..."Boyfriend" will NOT be sung at our churches fo sho!!!

[Sarah]

Originally Posted by Coonskinner

Monk, I don't have a lot of faith in internet discernment, but from reading your words for a while and interacting with you, I think we are probably not as far apart in spirit as it may seem sometimes.

I think we just choose to defend and emphasize different aspects of this thing.

I think our desire and heartbeats are pretty similar.

I was thinking the same thing right before reading this post!

You really do seem to be poles apart in methods and delivery, though, and personality also, if reading on the internet tells me anything.

I think I could trust you both in the leadership you have. You both seem to be great people!

[Monkeyman]

Originally Posted by Sarah

I was thinking the same thing right before reading this post!

You really do seem to be poles apart in methods and delivery, though, and personality also, if reading on the internet tells me anything.

I think I could trust you both in the leadership you have. You both seem to be great people!

Sometimes when you read the following, you think "false humility"...but I promise it isn't the case......I once had a great man tell me I would never fill his shoes (I was being a smart aleck in his office)...he was right! On that same point, I could NEVER fill CS's shoes. By reading his posts for some time...wow, he's quite the dude!