Do we have to pay tithes?

[houston]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Aquila?

In the nude

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Aquila

More information on the history of tithing:

The Church from the Fourth Century until the Eighth Century

The church in the first centuries had a very different use for money than the typical church today. Williston Walker reports that, in the year A.D. 251, the church of Rome under Bishop Grainelius had a membership of approximately 30,000 members and supported over 1,500 dependents. This amounts to one dependent per 20 members!

Chris could you explain the above?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by houston

In the nude

[houston]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Glad I was wearing clothes when I was frying bacon in whipped buttermilk this morning.

[Aquila]

Based on my studies tithing isn't a "requirement" of the NT. The voluntary giving of monetary tithes (10%) is entirely up to the individual. Churches that would "require" tithing, and/or threaten Hell for not tithing, do so outside of NT authority.

[Tithesmeister]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Why did Pharisees tithe herbs,? Were all Pharisees herbalists? Or did Jesus just have a problem with Pharisees who were herbalists?

Pharisees tithed herbs because herbs are by definition, seed bearing plants. The fact that the pharisees tithed herbs has been hailed by some as evidence that, if they were tithing herbs, then they were certainly tithing money. This is not true. The fact that all of these herbs were seed bearing, qualified them to be tithable according to the tithe law as quoted below . . .

Lev.27
[30] And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree, is the LORD's: it is holy unto the LORD.

Deut.14
[22] Thou shalt truly tithe all the increase of thy seed, that the field bringeth forth year by year.

The pharisees were tithing according to the law. This is why Jesus said they ought to do so, because they were still under the law. You will never find any portion of the law that requires, suggests, or even allows, tithing money.

[1ofthechosen]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Based on my studies tithing isn't a "requirement" of the NT. The voluntary giving of monetary tithes (10%) is entirely up to the individual. Churches that would "require" tithing, and/or threaten Hell for not tithing, do so outside of NT authority.

Ok I can say we all agree that it's not a requirement; that it of itself will save you or cause you to be lost! But we also established no one has ever threatened hell for not tithing. Go back a couple of posts I represented what really happens.

You are correct it is entirely up to the individual. But whether it sends someone to hell or not, is focusing on the minimums. What can I do, or can't I do, to scrape by and miss hell. I'm focused on the maximum, what can I do to please God!

1 Corinthians 6:12 "All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any." I propose we stop looking at everything as a sin, and a hell or heaven situation; and start looking at things as, "is this profitable, and expedient to God and His will to be done on earth as it is in heaven"! Would you agree, at least on that?

[Tithesmeister]

Originally Posted by 1ofthechosen

Btw no one ever said quote unqoute not paying tithes would send you to hell. Not paying tithes is robbing God (Malachi 3:9)+thieves can't inherit the kingdom of God (1 Corinthians 6:9-10)= "go straight to hell" as you said. But I never have met a man stand flat foot in shoe leather and say anything like that. In itself that would be ridiculous.

Let's take a closer look. Originalist has mentioned several times that the tithe law would never allow the tithe that is being extorted, or taught today. We are threatened with hell because we are robbing God.

What are we accused of robbing God of ? Ten percent of our net or gross income!

Was our income ever eligible for tithing? No, it never was. So if, as in the case of Brother Riggen, we have someone that is accusing that someone is a robber, when what he says we are accused of stealing was never eligible to be tithed, what we have is a false accusation. There has never been any robbery that has taken place, but there has been only a false accusation of theft.

When someone falsely accuses another, has he not lied? If not it sure comes close. Allow me to quote a scripture . . .


[9] Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
[10] Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

I believe that I remember Brother Riggen quoting this passage in his message. So let's think about this. If Brother Riggen is trying to extort tithes out of his members, at the threat of eternal damnation, and at the promise of being excluded from heaven, Is Brother Riggen not guilty of extortion, thievery, and coveting? Because what he is trying to get out of his members, the law never required them to pay. Would he be as aggressive about extorting tithes from them, if the tithe was wheat, barley and herbs?

Think about it.

[Aquila]

One cannot rob God by not tithing today. The tithe was an agrarian land tax codified under the Law of Moses to sustain the priesthood, the temple, and to provide grain and food for the storehouses of Israel, for the sake of the poor, the widow, the orphan, and the alien. Remember, the priests, who were to partake in the tithes, were not allowed to own property. There was no separation of church and state. The religious system of the OT was entirely supported by the agrarian land tax known as the tithe. By not tithing, the nation robbed God because it deprived the priesthood, the poor, widows, orphans, and the stranger of the most basic human provision, food. It was the death of social compassion, and brought a curse upon the nation.

This system no longer exists. And so, the tithe is impossible to perform in accordance to the Law. Therefore, it is also impossible to be branded a thief for not tithing to a system that doesn't exist.

[Aquila]

On the flip side, cutting funding for Social Security, TANF, and other programs that assist the poor, the widow, the orphan, and the stranger in our land bares a greater resemblance to Israel's refusal to tithe in the OT, and the sin it truly was.

Malachi 3:8-10 King James Version (KJV)
8 Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.
9 Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation.
10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the Lord of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.

Matthew 25:41-46
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Will a man rob God?