How close should a pastor get to the members? - Page 42

Rhoni · #**411** 12-15-2008, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rgcraig

I guess it varies between people how they choose to handle situations.

We had a terrible experience in the first church we assisted. But, I don't judge all pastor/ministers by that one experience. It was HIS problem - not ours.

I hate that you feel there's never been anyone you can trust. Maybe your expectations are too high.

I trust the Assembly of God pastor I sat under during my Master's program. Yes, I assume my expectations for a lot of people as well as myself are higher than any of us can meet.

MissBrattified · #**412** 12-15-2008, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhoni

I would only trust a professional counselor. I do not trust pastors or elders which is my point. BTW, I am going to a therapist and only because all this stuff is bogging me down.

To be frank, I wouldn't trust a professional counselor whose opinions were deeply tinged by her own bad experiences. Unless you can remain objective, in spite of your own past, you can't be a good counselor. JMO (which isn't professionally qualified)

You can't seem to remain objective on the forum...do you remain objective in your own counseling? Do you approach the way you talk to members of the forum differently than your own clients?

Amos · #**413** 12-15-2008, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

Christ is The Shepherd, but there is a reference to the church being the "flock", and those who are their "overseers."

Acts 20:28 "Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood."

I Peter 5:1 The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed:
I Peter 5:2 Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight thereof, not by constraint, but willingly; not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind;
I Peter 5:3 Neither as being lords over God's heritage, but being ensamples to the flock.
I Peter 5:4 And when the chief Shepherd shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away.

The inference here seems to be that elders are like under-shepherds, (to Christ), caring for the flock, until He returns/appears.

Oh dear...out comes the Scripture; whatever will we do?

Amos · #**414** 12-15-2008, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhoni

Overseer is NOT the Shepherd. He/she is an underling and not the chief shepherd. FEED the flock is their job. Preach, teach, exhort...but NOT boss, manipulate, control, or command!

.

It appears that many use these scriptures to be their private interpretation that the pastor is somehow in the stead of Christ [as does Catholicism has it's POPES/priests], but as it does not appear anywhere in the BIble to say the Pastor is the Shepherd!

Blessings, Rhoni

We see what thus saith Rhoni, but now let's see what thus saith the Scripture:

1Ti 4:7 But refuse profane and old wives' fables, and exercise thyself rather unto godliness.
1Ti 4:8 For bodily exercise profiteth little: but godliness is profitable unto all things, having promise of the life that now is, and of that which is to come.
1Ti 4:9 This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptation.
1Ti 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.
1Ti 4:11 These things command and teach.
1Ti 4:12 Let no man despise thy youth; but be thou an example of the believers, in word, in conversation, in charity, in spirit, in faith, in purity.
1Ti 4:13 Till I come, give attendance to reading, to exhortation, to doctrine.
1Ti 4:14 Neglect not the gift that is in thee, which was given thee by prophecy, with the laying on of the hands of the presbytery.
1Ti 4:15 Meditate upon these things; give thyself wholly to them; that thy profiting may appear to all.
1Ti 4:16 Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.

Paul told Timothy to command some things along with his teaching.

Busted again.

ManOfWord · #**415** 12-15-2008, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

Christ is The Shepherd, but there is a reference to the church being the "flock", and those who are their "overseers."

Acts 20:28 "Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood."

I Peter 5:1 The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed:
I Peter 5:2 Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight thereof, not by constraint, but willingly; not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind;
I Peter 5:3 Neither as being lords over God's heritage, but being ensamples to the flock.
I Peter 5:4 And when the chief Shepherd shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away.

The inference here seems to be that elders are like under-shepherds, (to Christ), caring for the flock, until He returns/appears.

I think this is correct. Christ is the Chief Shepherd and we pastors are the under shepherds. We care for Jesus' flock. The flock is not ours. We did not pay the price for them, He did. We didn't save them, He did. These above scriptures along with OA's take, I think are very accurate.

I will state this again and again and again: A pastor has as much authority & trust with the congregation as he is willing to serve them. He is there for them, not the other way around.

I think it is great the way Amos had some guys over for horse riding etc. That shows that the pastor is a regular guy like the rest of them. He simply has a calling and role to fill that was given him by God. The position of pastor is not any better than any other calling in the kingdom, IMO. It is just different. It carries an extreme amount of responsibility because he is caring for the Lord's sheep.

rgcraig · #**416** 12-15-2008, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amos

We see what thus saith Rhoni, but now let's see what thus saith the Scripture:

1Ti 4:7 But refuse profane and old wives' fables, and exercise thyself rather unto godliness.
1Ti 4:8 For bodily exercise profiteth little: but godliness is profitable unto all things, having promise of the life that now is, and of that which is to come.
1Ti 4:9 This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptation.
1Ti 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.
1Ti 4:11 These things command and teach.
1Ti 4:12 Let no man despise thy youth; but be thou an example of the believers, in word, in conversation, in charity, in spirit, in faith, in purity.
1Ti 4:13 Till I come, give attendance to reading, to exhortation, to doctrine.
1Ti 4:14 Neglect not the gift that is in thee, which was given thee by prophecy, with the laying on of the hands of the presbytery.
1Ti 4:15 Meditate upon these things; give thyself wholly to them; that thy profiting may appear to all.
1Ti 4:16 Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.

Paul told Timothy to command some things along with his teaching.

Busted again.

Oh, praise the Lord!

2020Vision · #**417** 12-15-2008, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aak1972

A pastor should never be used as council on any personal,legal or business matters. A pastors job is to lead his flock to Heaven.

I disagree with this. A pastor should never give counsel on personal matters?? Really? Is our personal life a separatement compartment than our religious life? I think not. A pastor should be able to provide good, wise counsel. There is a place for professional counseling, but major life decisions should always have a spiritual sage involved.

Timothy counsels those who want to marry, teaches them finances, how to manage the home, etc...

1 Timothy 5:14
So I counsel younger widows to marry, to have children, to manage their homes and to give the enemy no opportunity for slander.

Proverbs 15:22
Plans fail for lack of counsel, but with many advisers they succeed.

Proverbs 11:14
Where there is no counsel, the people fall; But in the multitude of counselors there is safety.

Proverbs 15:22
Without counsel, plans go awry, But in the multitude of counselors they are established.

Proverbs 24:6
For by wise counsel you will wage your own war, And in a multitude of counselors there is safety.

Proverbs 27:9
Perfume and incense bring joy to the heart, and the pleasantness of one's friend springs from his earnest counsel.

Psalm 1 is reason enough for me not to, at least, primarily take the counsel of unbelievers. Blessed is the man who does not walk in the counsel of the wicked or stand in the way of sinners or sit in the seat of mockers.

The Holy Ghost and Christ are also our Counselors. But your pastor you should trust with your soul, after all they are leading us to a destination that has much to do with our soul.