Tithing…Is it a command?

[Sean]

I was not sure what your position was concerning tithing and the Church. You had mentioned "the principle of tithing" in your original post. Many ministers these days say this phrase as an excuse to teach tithing. However this phrase is non existent along with any implication of it taught in the New Testament Church. There is no "principle of tithing"(mandatory percentage giving) taught anywhere in the New Testament Church. Im fine with free will giving, but NEVER compulsory giving. Poor men of God that cannot give 10% are many times marginalized by ministers for carnal big givers. I have seen this consistently done at nearly every church I have seen in my 35 years of being Pentecostal. Our Lord Jesus is sick of this injustice and wants us to stop it. This heresy was introduced as doctrine in the 40s and 50s in California as the oneness movement began unifying. Old independent ministers I know of called these ministers in big cars the "10 percenters". They taught the ignorant and uninformed members of their churches this doctrine for decades until it became part of our "doctrine and creed". This doctrine has ran off millions of souls of all Christian faiths that began to research its origins or could not give anymore. I did it for the first 20 years of my walk with God, all of the time being erroneously quoted Mal. 3 from the pulpit and threatened of either marginalization, excommunication or hell if not obeying its' tenets. I had no way of finding the truth of this heresy until I finally got the internet a few years ago. I was "terrified" to type...."is tithing a New Testament teaching"....Then when I got the nerve to read the endless posts of great teachers opposing it, I got the courage to take a stand against it. I realized the fear I had was from decades of "brainwashing" regarding this doctrine.

[HRea]

Originally Posted by Sean

There is no "principle of tithing"(mandatory percentage giving) taught anywhere in the New Testament Church.

Actually, yes there is. Everyone may find the following New Testament scriptures compelling and convicting. Regardless of what man teaches (and many teach against tithing), we need to find out what the Bible says.

Under the unction of the Holy Ghost, Paul wrote:

1 Corinthians 9:13-14 (ESV)
13 Do you not know that those who are employed in the temple service get their food from the temple, and those who serve at the altar share in the sacrificial offerings?
14 In the same way, the Lord commanded that those who proclaim the gospel should get their living by the gospel.

In this, Paul does 3 things that many argue against today
1. Relates the New Testament minister back to the Levitical Priesthood. They are not the same obviously (Levites are by birth, Preachers are by God's calling)
2. Declares that this is the Lord's command and not Paul's teaching
3. Reiterates the principle manner in which they are provided for

Consistent with this command/principle is the often derided Malachi 3:10:

Malachi 3:10 (ESV)
10a Bring the full tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house.

God has chosen His method of providing for both the Jewish Priesthood and the New Testament Ministry and this method is "after the same manner".

Originally Posted by Sean

Old independent ministers I know of called these ministers in big cars the "10 percenters".

I completely agree with the criticism of the fat-cat preacher who has abused God's provisions and heaped possessions to themselves. As the church grows, the number of preachers should likewise grow, for the work of the ministry, perfecting of the saints, and so on, may be met.

Unfortunately, abuse of God's provision has the same effect that it did when Eli and Samuel's sons misbehaved. Their actions caused the people to chafe at contributing to the minister's wayward behavior. Do their sins make the Word of no effect? God forbid, but it does cause the heart of the saints great difficulty and anguish fulfilling the commands.

Originally Posted by Sean

I realized the fear I had was from decades of "brainwashing" regarding this doctrine.

Let's go one level deeper in the doctrine of "ministerial provisions". Paul would increase the obligation of the hearer to the preacher:

Galatians 6:6 (ESV)
6 Let the one who is taught the word share all good things with the one who teaches.

If 1 Corinthians 9:13-14 is intolerable and detestable, then how much more our obligations to fulfill Galatians 6:6?

[Sean]

HRea, thank you for posting here on this subject. I will repost this one(post) I did earlier regarding the Tithe and the Law....I did not see any evidence of tithing to the ministry in your post, however I did see the ministry has a right to be blessed by the giver for their efforts. I totally agree with that, but tithing in itself was of the Law and was disanulled along with the rest of the Law to the New Testament Believer(see below)...
.Keep in mind that ALL believers have only ONE priest in the N.T.church....JESUS. Nobody can designate to a believer to tithe to their ministry.

All of us(everyone) in the N.T. church(The Royal Priesthood) are a "type" of the Levitical priesthood and are EQUALS in Jesus. Jesus is a "type" of the High priesthood(our only Priest), and sinners are a "type" of the 11 tribes of Israel(needing a sacrificial covering), and needing us to direct them through the preaching of the Gospel and intercessions to the "High Priest"...JESUS.

This is why we(believers) do not tithe to fellow believers. That is why Paul did not dare to speak of tithing as a "continuing" doctrine into the N.T. church......



Posted earlier by Sean....
Well bro...... to start your post you misinterpreted the verse that says the Law is our schoolmaster...

23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.



The Law is still in effect for sinners today(not for saints though), but if you want to quote the Law and live by it, you will be judged by it at the end. The Lord absolutely will not honor Mal. 3 when we ask the Lord to "rebuke the devourer in our lives". A saint cannot twist the Lords' arm to honor the Law in which Jesus died to disannull for the saint to be free from.

Hebrews 7:18
18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.
19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.

The "principle of tithe teaching" is a completely fabricated myth, with its roots in Catholicism, (concerning the Church).

It is one of the greatest stumblingblocks the true oneness, Jesus name church has held on to that came from the dark ages for the world to stumble over.

It should not even be mentioned in the Church of our Lord, and I feel sorry for those that teach it. Grace does not cover the teacher, teaching the SAINTS that they must follow the Law....

Hebrews 7:5
5 And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham:
Last edited by Sean; Today at 09:15 AM.

[HRea]

Sean, thank you for the warm greeting.

Originally Posted by Sean

I did not see any evidence of tithing to the ministry in your post, however I did see the ministry has a right to be blessed by the giver for their efforts. I totally agree with that, but tithing in itself was of the Law and was disanulled along with the rest of the Law to the New Testament

Right versus Command. When the Lord issues a command, it's a command. 1 Corinthians 9:14 is a command. And 1 Corinthians 9:13 is the pattern to follow to fulfill that command. The verse (v 14) is strongly worded that the Lord's ministers would be taken care of. Whether it was in the Mosaic Law or not, it is in the New Testament now.

Galatians 6:6 is stronger still. There is no escaping the responsibility to provide for the New Testament ministry.

Many would like to disregard these scriptures, but they are included nonetheless. It has been my experience when talking with people about this subject, that those who disagree with tithing (I mean vehemently disagree) are tight-fisted with their giving (and complete disregard) toward ministerial provisions. This isn't universal, but is the majority.

Originally Posted by Sean

Keep in mind that ALL believers have only ONE priest in the N.T.church....JESUS. Nobody can designate to a believer to tithe to their ministry.

All of us(everyone) in the N.T. church(The Royal Priesthood) are a "type" of the Levitical priesthood and are EQUALS in Jesus.

This teaching denies the scriptures concerning the ministry. Yes, there is only one Head, that is Jesus, and one Body, that is the believers, but the purpose of the ministry is well explained in Ephesians 4:11-16, 1 Corinthians 12:28-29, and in several other passages. And, no, not everyone is a part of the ministry. Yes, the ministry is part of the body, but, according to the scriptures, the body is to provide for the ministry.

Again, the Lord established the ministry, not a church or a denomination and the Lord established the provision for the ministry.

Originally Posted by Sean

The "principle of tithe teaching" is a completely fabricated myth, with its roots in Catholicism, (concerning the Church).

Were 1 Corinthians 9:13-14 and Galatians 6:6 (and other scriptures) not in the New Testament, I might agree that "the principle" was started by a denomination. But these scriptures are in the New Testament and are for the provision of the ministry.

[Sean]

Still, brother, there is no verse in any of your passages that we are to tithe to the ministry. Not one shred of scripture. It only says that they are "partakers" of the sacrifices given to the altar.
The pattern we see subsequently in the early church is ministry becoming partakers of the benevolence of the saints to one another. Adding tithing into the passage is a complete assumption and thereby a fabrication(lie).
Also, the calling we have does not set us apart as "priests" to our fellow "Royal Priesthood Saints"(we are not sub-priests to a middle priest) . That is only in our minds but not Biblical. Jesus alone is our only priest.
This concept you are implying is the very concept of "LORDSHIP" that the Lord Jesus FORBID us to have over one another.
The tithe is essentially in our days, the equivalent of a "salvation tax". I heard Jerry Jones call it that very thing years ago at Landmark.(it must have slipped while he was preaching).

[HRea]

Originally Posted by Sean

Also, the calling we have does not set us apart as "priests" to our fellow "Royal Priesthood Saints"(we are not sub-priests to a middle priest). That is only in our minds but not Biblical. Jesus alone is our only priest. This concept you are implying is the very concept of "LORDSHIP" that the Lord Jesus FORBID us to have over one another.

My brother, I am baffled by who might have taught you concerning how God Himself has established and setup the kingdom of God and what scriptures they used. You keep pushing back against the scriptures as though they were my words. They are not my words nor my concept. Ephesians 4:11-16 and 1 Corinthians 12:28 speak expressly of God setting up the ministry and why He did it.

You have begun to use phrases in your responses which causes me to think that you did not read the scriptures that I included. This is not a concept in some man's mind, but the scripture says that God established the ministry.

Minister <> Lordship. Whoever told you that the minister is your Lord had no Biblical basis for such a claim.

Originally Posted by Sean

Still, brother, there is no verse in any of your passages that we are to tithe to the ministry. Not one shred of scripture. It only says that they are "partakers" of the sacrifices given to the altar.

In this part of your response causes me to understand that many misunderstand Old Testament tithing. In a nutshell Old Testament tithing:
- Holy unto the Lord
- Between the children of Abraham and the Lord
- The Lord chose to provide for the Levites from the tithes

Too often people make the jump that tithes are to the ministry, which they are not. Tithes are to God, and God chose to provide for the ministry from the tithe. (Numbers 18:24, Numbers 18:21)

[Rudy]

1 Corinthians 9:13-14 (ESV)
13 Do you not know that those who are employed in the temple service get their food from the temple, and those who serve at the altar share in the sacrificial offerings?
14 In the same way, the Lord commanded that those who proclaim the gospel should get their living by the gospel.

If one uses "in the same way" then it's food you will get In the same way is speaking about assisting those who labor in the gospel generally speaking. In no way is it speaking about tithing money as a command. There is no command to build or have a building to meet in. The Levites brought a tenth of the tithe of food to the Temple. There would be no room at the temple to store all of Israel's tithe of food products.

Also at some point the tither ate and shared the tithe of food. When does this happen today in like manner?

[HRea]

Originally Posted by Rudy

If one uses "in the same way" then it's food you will get In the same way is speaking about assisting those who labor in the gospel generally speaking.

First, we need to determine if 1 Corinthians 9:13-14 and Galatians 6:6 are in the New Testament or the Old Testament. I believe that these two passages are part of the New Testament. Both, not just 1 Corinthians 9:13-14, but Galatians 6:6 also.

Second, since they are part of the New Testament, and together, they are a command to provide for the ministry, are you obeying the command and in what way? If you believe that it's food, are you bringing food? If you believe cattle, are you bringing cattle? If you believe clothing, are you bringing clothing? How are you sharing with your teacher in all good things?

Thirdly, since it was tithing in 1 Corinthians 9:13, I believe that by the conjunction "in the same manner" the Lord extended tithing into verse 14.

Fourthly, I don't believe tithes belong to the ministry, the Bible is explicit that tithes belong to God. God chose to provide for the ministry from the tithe (as evident in Numbers 18:24, Numbers 18:21)

Now, we can strain at this interpretation or that interpretation, but the scripture is quite plain about what it's dealing with, and the end result is provisions for the ministry.

By the way, do you truly believe that your pastor and his family is provided for on a $1 a week?

[good samaritan]

Originally Posted by Rudy

1 Corinthians 9:13-14 (ESV)
13 Do you not know that those who are employed in the temple service get their food from the temple, and those who serve at the altar share in the sacrificial offerings?
14 In the same way, the Lord commanded that those who proclaim the gospel should get their living by the gospel.

If one uses "in the same way" then it's food you will get In the same way is speaking about assisting those who labor in the gospel generally speaking. In no way is it speaking about tithing money as a command. There is no command to build or have a building to meet in. The Levites brought a tenth of the tithe of food to the Temple. There would be no room at the temple to store all of Israel's tithe of food products.

Also at some point the tither ate and shared the tithe of food. When does this happen today in like manner?

Are you suggesting that we do away with church buildings?

How would you legally gather 100 plus people in a house group to worship?

If we were completely to mirror the early church in the book of Acts you would have to sell your house, car, and all your belongings.

Tithing isn't explicitly taught in the New Testament. Thankfully there are people who follow the multiple biblical examples found in scriptures.

[good samaritan]

I know of pastors working two jobs outside of the church to support it and their family. Meanwhile, people will be content to put one or two dollars in the pan on Sunday.This must be o.k. because the new testament doesn't explicitly give an amount.(sarcasm) Then there are people trying to teach tithing isn't right to the two or three in the church that actually do it.(recipe for disaster)

The truth is, most of who tithe, do it because of the kingdom of God and not because of fear. There is enough scriptural examples for us to teach it, and people can make up their mind whether they want to do it or not. God will judge the hearts of people, whether or not they are pleasing to him with their finances.