Tulsa Report Day 2

[rgcraig]

Originally Posted by Sacerdotal

Sounds like some are upset they didn't get a position offered to them.

LOL....I doubt that.

[BroGibs]

Bro.Dan, I feel the same way!! And i know there are alot more out there that feel the same!!
God bless you!

[RevBuddy]

Now we have the WPF Apologists with us always...just like the poor...

[BroGibs]

God help us!

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by RevBuddy

Now we have the WPF Apologists with us always...just like the poor...

We are such a gullible bunch and we will always accept style over substance. We don't want to have to actually think about things. We just want to hear the "right" noises and see the "right" picture flash before our eyes and we're lulled back to sleep.

It's really no wonder that the Jesus Name Apostolic movement is dying out in North America. We do the same thing every time and get the same result and turn over and go back to sleep. The last thing we need to hear is that all of our infighting and competitive holiness has had a negative impact on ourselves.

"We're not using the UPCI minister's mailing list to start a new organization..." But before the invitations even go out there's already a huge bureaucracy in place.

"Oh well... we just didn't think we were starting a new org at the time we "borrowed" the list. We changed our minds later so we didn't really deceive anyone but ourselves. And we do that all the time anyhow, so it's not a bad thing!"

"We have a "great spirit! We had to lie to our brethren, violate the Manual and Articles of Faith that we swore we'd uphold, but no big deal. God's always gonna be with us... as long as we keep making the right noises and dress up in the right uniform. There's nothing wrong with us!"

And the movement continues to die a slow and painful death.

[CC1]

Originally Posted by IAintMovin

ewwwwwwww.......was that supposed to hurt........ewwwwwwwww.......so childish.........actually I will WEAR THEM WITH THEM RIGHT THERE and have before.........I thought about suggesting a 'grow up' a second ago on another of your post........now I am thinking of it even harder.........IAM is what IAM is........I do not do the duck and hide thing around my friends.......IAM what I am...........

My post was meant to be tongue in cheek. Dry sense of humor not some kind of childish vindictive thing. Good grief!

[BroGibs]

Brothers, we stand in UNITY or you cut your ties with the UPCI and go your own way!! we will never be successful as a group divided!!!!

[MikeinAR]

BroGibs brings up what seems to be the point of most pertinence to me. Where does this go from here? To just an outside observer like myself the signals from the Tulsa meeting are mixed and double minded at best. At the one hand, it seems the Tulsa-nites aren't really prepared to make the leap and disassociate themselves with the UPCI, but are inclined to offer local certifications to minister within the WPF.

Surely they don't intend to operate as the WPF, all the while trying to operate within the UPCI as well. Rational men would agree there's no need for the WPF if they intend on remaining in the UPCI.

[Nahum]

Originally Posted by NW Pastor

Does anyone on this forum believe for one minute that there will not be a new, totally separate organization which will arise from the WPF "fellowship"? All of this blather over who said what when gets a little tiresome. There will be a separation. Period.

Originally Posted by RevBuddy

PP and NW Pastor...

You both are EXACTLY CORRECT...no question.

Originally Posted by NW Pastor

This is why the righteous indignation of the Tulsa defenders on this forum rings so hollow. They all know there will be a real and painful splintering of organizational bonds, regardless of all public declarations or lack thereof by the Tulsa founders.

Originally Posted by pelathais

The organizers are playing a careful game. They believe that they stand to gain a lot so they're careful with their words. Also, nothing exists in spoken words the way it appears on paper.

For example, no one's name was used without their permission. Period. That was checked and rechecked and no one was found to have slipped through. Yet when KH's letter is brought up where he describes people who said that their names were used without permission - does a contradiction exist? No! It's just a matter of timing and a misunderstanding. KH is "correct," but at the same time "mistaken."

Also, when the claims that "no organization was being formed" were being thrown around after Tampa, angry words were said to the skeptics. When the Bible quizzing site was put up, those angry words ceased and a wait-and-see attitude developed. Then when a full blown bureaucracy was revealed we were told that this was the plan all along. You were mistaken to have said, "No new organization was being formed."

The WPF web site was "hacked" when links to publically accessible pages were posted here. Apparently Google was involved in the "hacking" because the webmasters were careful to have submitted their brand new pages to the search engine for public indexing. Since when is submitting your own public web pages to Google so that anyone in the world can find them called "privacy?" But that's what the Tulsa organizers want us to believe.

Questions arose about the ethics of the recruiting methods. The UPCI mailing list was and then wasn't, and then was obtained for purposes of recruitment. Somehow WEC either waived all their standard procedures for the use of this list or ethics don't really apply when WEC is the "backslidden" party.

Using the UPC to split itself is "okay" because "no new organization was being formed." But then when the organization is formed, the participants all boast about the fine spirit in which this was done.

And we are called upon to applaud this work? Okay. I applaud. If they can keep it up for another year I will stand and applaud. But I would hope that they would blush before then.

Thanks guys. I was starting to feel sort of lonely out here.

Look, I have been around NFCF, and now AFF, for about 18 months now. The same posters who are defending this Tulsa stuff are the ones who have consistently said that AS signers who lie are sinful, deceitful and worse.

I agreed with them then. I still agree that deception is wrong, whether it comes from Tulsa, or by signing an agreement you don't believe in.

[Nahum]

Originally Posted by pelathais

The organizers are playing a careful game. They believe that they stand to gain a lot so they're careful with their words. Also, nothing exists in spoken words the way it appears on paper.

For example, no one's name was used without their permission. Period. That was checked and rechecked and no one was found to have slipped through. Yet when KH's letter is brought up where he describes people who said that their names were used without permission - does a contradiction exist? No! It's just a matter of timing and a misunderstanding. KH is "correct," but at the same time "mistaken."

Also, when the claims that "no organization was being formed" were being thrown around after Tampa, angry words were said to the skeptics. When the Bible quizzing site was put up, those angry words ceased and a wait-and-see attitude developed. Then when a full blown bureaucracy was revealed we were told that this was the plan all along. You were mistaken to have said, "No new organization was being formed."

The WPF web site was "hacked" when links to publically accessible pages were posted here. Apparently Google was involved in the "hacking" because the webmasters were careful to have submitted their brand new pages to the search engine for public indexing. Since when is submitting your own public web pages to Google so that anyone in the world can find them called "privacy?" But that's what the Tulsa organizers want us to believe.

Questions arose about the ethics of the recruiting methods. The UPCI mailing list was and then wasn't, and then was obtained for purposes of recruitment. Somehow WEC either waived all their standard procedures for the use of this list or ethics don't really apply when WEC is the "backslidden" party.

Using the UPC to split itself is "okay" because "no new organization was being formed." But then when the organization is formed, the participants all boast about the fine spirit in which this was done.

And we are called upon to applaud this work? Okay. I applaud. If they can keep it up for another year I will stand and applaud. But I would hope that they would blush before then.

This is the best post I have seen since Tampa.

It accurately synopsizes events leading up to, during and immediately after the passing of resolution four.