Saddened by NY Grand Jury Decision To NOT Indict

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by jfrog

Prax, i argued that the cops were guilty of nothing. You appeared to agree with me till recently. If ya step back a second it'll be apparent how ndavid came to the conclusion that you did not even feel the cops were negligent.

Hmmm. I would not argue they were guilty of anything. And I did NOT say they were guilty recently either

Guilt is reserved for a court hearing, not a Grand Jury nor public opinion.

Im not saying they were negligent. Im saying they COULD be and perhaps needed to be indicted to take it to trial.

What I am opposed to are the nuances of the facts. Was it a chokehold? Was it an intentional act to do harm? Was it murder as someone said or an execution? Where they out of line to take the man down after he resisted arrest?

Im not saying he could be negligent for initially doing the headlock and taking him down, but somewhere along the way the man was complaining of not being able to breath and they not only continued to try to cuff him, one guy has his hands placed firmly on his face and is pressing it down..and he is saying "I can't breath"

But that is why I said, we need more info. We need to see the autopsy and we need to see the grand jury stuff

[Sasha]

Originally Posted by n david

Actually, the Grand Jury only sees what the Prosecutor wants them to see. We don't know they saw all the evidence. Since the Prosecutor works daily with the PD, in most cases the Prosecutor does not complete his due diligence. There should have been a special prosecutor assigned to this case, in order to guarantee no bias for the cop.

Are you suggesting that the prosecutor was on the side of the defendant?

[Sasha]

Out of all these posts I have read, not one of them states that the primary cause of death was Garner resisting arrest in the first place. If that had not taken place, none of this discussion would be taking place.

There was a man driving with a suspended license. There was another man driving legally. The legally driving man came around a curve and swerved to miss a deer. In doing so, he hit the man driving with a suspended license head-on, killing him. Who is at fault for the accident?

[Sasha]

Originally Posted by BrotherEastman

Since you posted this I assume you agree with Garner's wife? Speak ill of the dead much? His life really didn't matter? Work is hard to do when your disabled wouldn't you think?

Yes, being arrested over 30 times for committing crimes is much easier than helping old ladies wrestle a cart in WalMart.

[Sasha]

Originally Posted by n david

You don't have a clue about that, you really don't. Even criminals care about their family.

My parents were involved in prison ministry for almost 3 decades. I attended many services with them during that time and talked with the men in that prison. We also had 2 men live with us for a while after their release.

That kind of statement is made in either arrogance or ignorance. Either way, it's completely wrong.

I have found that criminals usually start caring about their families after they are sentenced to prison.

I have a cousin who is in prison at the age of 41. He's been there most of the time since he was 19. During one of his visits away from 'home', he got married and had a child (we have been told, never met the wife of kid). That child hasn't seen him and if he exists, he would be about ten now. My cousin will not be released until he is 50. He's not a violent criminal, just can't keep his hands off other people's stuff, and the more he is arrested, the larger his sentence is the next time.

Every time he is issued a new sentence, he contacts my mom to tell her he's taking college courses and found religion and he has turned over a new leaf. If you were to talk to him, he would convince you of this. He's a smooth talker...the kind that could sell ice to an Eskimo.

Deep inside, I want to say he has a good heart, but his actions state otherwise. And guess what? He learned it from his daddy. Thing is, my uncle was involved in big time thievery like fraud and insurance scams. He didn't get caught only because he has names of attorneys and judges who were involved with him. Michael wasn't so lucky. He scammed malls and vacant homes and even his own family.

He's my cousin and I love him, but if he dies while incarcerated or being arrested, it will be his own fault.

[BrotherEastman]

Originally Posted by Sasha

Are you suggesting that the prosecutor was on the side of the defendant?

Although I cannot answer for David, I would say yes.

[BrotherEastman]

Originally Posted by Sasha

Yes, being arrested over 30 times for committing crimes is much easier than helping old ladies wrestle a cart in WalMart.

Now that is what I call an idiotic post, but your welcome to delusional opinions.

[BrotherEastman]

Originally Posted by Sasha

I have found that criminals usually start caring about their families after they are sentenced to prison.

I have a cousin who is in prison at the age of 41. He's been there most of the time since he was 19. During one of his visits away from 'home', he got married and had a child (we have been told, never met the wife of kid). That child hasn't seen him and if he exists, he would be about ten now. My cousin will not be released until he is 50. He's not a violent criminal, just can't keep his hands off other people's stuff, and the more he is arrested, the larger his sentence is the next time.

Every time he is issued a new sentence, he contacts my mom to tell her he's taking college courses and found religion and he has turned over a new leaf. If you were to talk to him, he would convince you of this. He's a smooth talker...the kind that could sell ice to an Eskimo.

Deep inside, I want to say he has a good heart, but his actions state otherwise. And guess what? He learned it from his daddy. Thing is, my uncle was involved in big time thievery like fraud and insurance scams. He didn't get caught only because he has names of attorneys and judges who were involved with him. Michael wasn't so lucky. He scammed malls and vacant homes and even his own family.

He's my cousin and I love him, but if he dies while incarcerated or being arrested, it will be his own fault.

Based upon your EXPERT opinion of course, you have absolutely no evidence that Eric Garner didn't care about his family. There are also people who do not care about there own families that have never stood inside of a prison. What a moronic statement for you to make.

[Sasha]

Originally Posted by n david

It is possible, depending on the degree, just ask any medical professional. Great post from reddit gives the reasons why it's possible.

The Pernicious Myth Of "If You Can Speak You Can Breathe"

When you hear someone say "If you can speak you can breathe" know that they are full of *.

1. The lungs have what are called "Volumes" and "Capacities". The link describes all of them. For our purposes, you need to understand these two phrases: Functional Reserve Capacity (the amount of air left in the lungs after a normal exhalation) and Expiratory Reserve Volume (the amount of air you can still force out of your lungs after a normal exhalation).

2. When you take a normal breath you breathe in and out you are breathing about 500ml of air. After breathing out, you are left with ~2400ml of air inside your lungs, this is the Functional Reserve Capacity. If you try to force out as much air as possible, you can still force out ~1200ml more air. This is the Expiratory Reserve Volume. This is air you are able to speak with even if you cannot take a normal breath. Important Note: Notice that the Expiratory Reserve Volume is more than twice the size of a normal breath. That is a lot of air you are able to force out, and a lot of speaking you can do even if you can't breathe.

3. The lungs work on negative pressure. So, your lungs, when you breathe in, are at a lower pressure than the outside air. This draws the air into them. This is caused by your diaphragm and intercostal muscles. Your lungs are very elastic, and will move back to their normal size during exhalation. This is where the problem begins for officers. If you are kneeling on a suspect, or you have them handcuffed on the ground so that they are on their chest, there is a strong possibility that you can cut off their ability to breathe. Once the lungs begin to exhale, they collapse, but if you they are being pressed down on by body weight, they may not be able to re-expand. They then continue to collapse, forcing out the Functional Reserve Capacity of air, but not drawing in a new breath. So, your suspect may be pleading for breath, they may actually be incapable of drawing one in, and the reason is you. If someone is saying they cannot breathe, you need to believe them, because you might be killing them. Furthermore, during any kind of physical altercation, that person may be breathing deeply and rapidly, making their lungs collapse faster when you are kneeling on them or holding them on the ground.

4. Asthma. Some of you may be saying "Well, the guy who died had asthma, that wasn't the officer's fault or the jail's fault." Oh yes it was. If someone is telling you they have asthma and they can't breathe, you need to believe them. Asthma is a constriction of the airways, no different than being strangled. They will still be able to speak and they will still be dying slowly. It took 30 minutes for that man to die, and that was entirely preventable.

So why are you suffocating if so much air is still in your lungs? Part of the problem is that the air left over in the lungs after exhalation is not oxygenated, so your lungs are full of CO2 gas. This air is useless to your blood, so even though your bronchioles are full of air, you are still suffocating to death.

Obesity: Not Everyone Has The Same Lung Capacity: There are factors that can make a person have a smaller lung capacity than someone else. These factors include:
1. Being obese
2. Being a female
3. Living at low altitudes
4. Being a smoker
This is important because not only does an obese person have smaller lung capacity, they also can have their lungs fail to expand due to their own body weight if they are lying on the ground facedown. An obese person is at extreme risk of suffocation in any instance where their airways are being blocked or where they are cuffed and on the ground. Don't * around if they say they can't breathe, they're probably not lying.

What is not stated above is how vocal cords work. Air must pass through them in order to speak. Yes, you can still have air in the lungs even after feeling that you have completely expelled all air, but to speak, he had to be breathing. He didn't have that much air left. Try jogging for five minutes, expell all air from your lungs, start jogging again without inhaling and tell me how many times you can say 'I can't breathe' until you just pass out.

If your windpipe is crushed, I'm thinking one can't speak, or speak clearly enough to be heard. Talking while being hung or strangled may work in the movies, but one cannot speak if their windpipe is compromised.

Ok, I get that just because someone can breathe doesn't mean they are ok. People in respiratory failure are breathing, but they won't be for long if action isn't taken, like intubation.

I'm more upset that the EMTs who were on the scene did nothing to help him. I have yet to hear why that is and why they were not charged.

[Sasha]

Originally Posted by BrotherEastman

Although I cannot answer for David, I would say yes.

And the videos showed to the GJ, they were biased toward the officer also?