Welcome to the “straw man” argument museum. A “straw man” argument attempts to counter an argument with a
different argument.
The question asked by you was whether or not marriage to a
prepubescent girl is a sin. I affirmed it was based upon Biblical data.
No I received your answer, which took DAYS for you to finally give.
"As shown, the Bible does not give explicit age for someone to get married, but what it does give, reading the passage, ‘puberty’ is the minimum age for a girl allowed to get married."
Data such as Jesus Himself, correcting the error of Jewish tradition, referencing the creative order of one man and one woman in marriage. The fact that God created the universe in maturity is indicative of Adam and Eve being created in maturity as well. For example, the vegetation had to be created in maturity or the animals created the next day have died due to a lack of food. Adam was to tend to the garden, indicating mature thought processes.
In other words: "As shown, the Bible does not give explicit age for someone to get married, but what it does give, reading the passage, ‘puberty’ is the minimum age for a girl allowed to get married." Right?
As to the marriage of Isaac and Rebekah they were indeed married. However, she was not a prepubescent girl. She was a mature young woman. The ESV gets the translation right.
In other words: "As shown, the Bible does not give explicit age for someone to get married, but what it does give, reading the passage, ‘puberty’ is the minimum age for a girl allowed to get married". Thank you.
Your argument that he was forty and she was a teen is based upon your wishful imagination because the Biblical text does not give her age. You must prove she was a “teen”. Although, this is interesting. You first attempted to argue she was a three year old girl, I discuss that fallacy below. Now you are trying to argue she was a “teen”. I applaud your reversal, if it’s sincere. I doubt the sincerity though.
In other words: "As shown, the Bible does not give explicit age for someone to get married, but what it does give, reading the passage, ‘puberty’ is the minimum age for a girl allowed to get married." Thank you.
your prophet married and consummated that marriage with a prepubescent girl.
Source?
Next you have tried to make arguments about Mary and Joseph. Again you must prove the ages. How old were they? The Biblical data would indicate they were both mature individuals. Beyond that no age is given. You are entitled to your opinion. You are not entitled to your own facts. Facts are stubborn things…
In other words: "As shown, the Bible does not give explicit age for someone to get married, but what it does give, reading the passage, ‘puberty’ is the minimum age for a girl allowed to get married." Thanks.
It appears to me that you are grasping at straws to find anything to justify your prophet.
It appears that we are right back to what I originally told you. There is no explicit age given for marriage in the bible. You could have just agreed with that way back.
You initially attempted to put forth commentary that Rebekah was 3 years old.
There are two major issues with your logic.
1) You used the commentary of a man, Rashi, that lived thousands of years after the events. He was wrong. Not a good choice for “evidence”.
2) There is no moral equivalency between a man’s commentary and the Bible. The Bible is where my foundation is laid not the comments of humanity.
Did I say that I agreed with that or did I say that Rashi said that? Page back a little maybe? I did not "attempt" to put forth commentary, I put it forth. You answered and the answer you gave, being that a there is no explicit age given in marriage in the bible, is exactly the correct answer. Otherwise, I am not exactly a follower of "Rashi" whoever he is nor do I especially care what he has to say on the issue.
You have attempted other “straw man” justifications for your prophet’s marriage to and consummation of marriage to a prepubescent girl such as:
1) Arguing that the American Colonies allowed marriages to very young girls. I did not verify the information you posted because it was pointless. Pointless because it has no bearing on the facts. The laws of man are not morally equivalent to the Bible.
2) You tried arguing that it was a cultural norm hundreds and thousands of years ago. This is problematic because:
a. Culture is not morally equivalent to the Bible.
b. Islam has this enshrined in its law, Shariah. It is perpetuated today in Islam because your prophet and his teachings made this a valid marriage for all Mohammedans. Therefore, it is a practice that continues today not just hundreds or even thousands of years ago.
In other words: As shown, the Bible does not give explicit age for someone to get married, but what it does give, reading the passage, ‘puberty’ is the minimum age for a girl allowed to get married. Thanks
Same logic used by many to justify their particular positions. The Bible, as already mentioned, is not a list of do’s and don’ts. There are mitzvahs (commandments) to be sure but they are not exhaustive. To be exhaustive would require a library. The Bible does not even include everything Jesus did. The Apostle John stated:
(
Joh 21:25 KJV) And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.
Not worth answering. The ministry is available to help us understand what Jesus MEANT to say if the actual details are missing.
Welcome back to the straw man museum! Our guide will be “Walks In Islam”. Once again the point is that Muhammad married a six year old girl and consummated that marriage when she was nine.
Moses allowed polygamy as well as divorce. In answer to the specific question of divorce He, Jesus, corrected the errors of Jewish tradition by pointing back to the created order. In the created order that Jesus used as the standard for marriage, there is one man and one woman. So easy even a cave man can see it.
Thank you! No I am not the first minister that said a flock needs the ministry.
God told Moses directly for the need of ministers (
Deu. 17:8-11)!
Of course. Which is where the Talmud derived from. Those appointed as the ministry.
Paul stated that the ministry is for the perfecting of the saints (
Eph. 4:11-12). Then he told the Thessalonians to esteem the ministry very highly (
1 Thess. 5:12-13).
The writer of Hebrews said to obey them that have the rule over them and to submit to them (
Heb. 13:17).
Like you, Paul did not know Jesus.
So many other scriptures could be given but you will not hearken to these so what’s the point? This is just another straw man argument to keep from dealing with the issue – your prophet married a six year old and consummated that marriage when she was nine.
BTW for someone who whines about being insulted you sure do try to insult a lot…
Who whined when? I was just noting (for the mods) that whatever you get you have coming because you earned it.
Wow! So your justification is that he didn’t molest her when she was six. He waited until she was nine. The mind is never as resourceful as when it’s trying to justify itself.
It's a lot more resourceful justifying something someone actually did than it is discussing something someone else did from 1400 years ago.
According to your deity it’s okay. According to your prophet it’s okay. You believe the quran right?
Surah 33. Al-Ahzab
“21. Indeed in the Messenger of Allah (Muhammad) you have a good example to follow for him who hopes for (the Meeting with) Allah and the Last Day, and remembers Allah much.”
Surah 68. Al-Qalam
“4. And verily, you (O Muhammad) are on an exalted (standard of) character.”
Your quran says Muhammad’s example is a good example.
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