Oneness Pentecostal Apologetics Conference

[DAII]

I understand another brilliant mind is Curt Fee ... has Bachelor's in Business from Truman State University and a Master's from UGST.

[Jeffrey]

Finding out more and more that many in the fellowship that are known for their education, when inspected closely, either don't match the hype (like the doctorate really isn't a doctorate, or it's a doctorate in ceramics from Cracker Jack Box University), or they are a tolerated extremist in the organization content with keeping their place.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Jeffrey

I don't think everyone sees the world in shades of Oness vs. Trinity, at least to the degree that you do.

In fact, more and more groups, like Acts 29 and others are emphasizing less on those particulars. Certainly, not to accomodate Oneness Pentecostals, but most definitely in realization that haggling over theological minutia is not priority enough to make it as an Essential belief.

"everyone" might not, but since all the negative criticism here is on Oneness, let's be balanced. MOST of our "translations" are from Trinitarian sources. Trinitarians don't say "we all have the truth, you Oneness, you JWs"...they say rather there is one truth and THEY have it. It's not a bad thing to say "truth"..it's not a bad thing to have an opinion. You say "to the degree you do"...yet it was not me that started all the anti-Oneness criticism..yet you chose to focus on me...personally again.

Let's recap...I did not start this thread. I did not take the focus OF the thread onto Oneness people. I'm simply trying to give a balanced counter to all the anti-Oneness criticism to show that it's NOT just Oneness that say "we have the truth" or that it's NOT just Oneness that have an interest in translations

[Jeffrey]

Originally Posted by DAII

I understand another brilliant mind is Curt Fee ... has Bachelor's in Business from Truman State University and a Master's from UGST.

Was that TIC?

Does UGST offer MdIV degrees now?

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by pelathais

The one glaring point that a lot of us seem to be missing here, in our attempts to conjure up Oneness scholars of repute, is that whenever one of us went after a fully accredited doctorate degree at one of these "premier" institutions - the degree seeker invariably came out of the process as something other than the Oneness Pentecostal they had been at the start of their matriculation.

Not necessarily. Daniel Segraves is a good example

[BeenThinkin]

Originally Posted by Jeffrey

What does it mean to be on the committee? How many are on the committee? Are there primary, secondary, etc committees?

I'm not sure what NU's qualifications are to be on such a committee, other than a privilege of honor, like someone that gets to witness it.

This is where he NU was listed on the NKJV .....


North American Overview Committee

Two large meetings of the North American Overview Committee met at Nashville and Chicago in 1975 to assist in preparing guidelines for the NKJV. Nearly all felt that the project was worthy of the time, money, and effort that would be invested. Members of this committee included:

Dr, Elmer Towns ~ Dean, Professor of Systematic Theology
Liberty Baptist Seminary ~ Lynchburg, Virginia

Rev. Nathaniel A. Urshan ~ General Superintendent
United Pentecostal Church ~ Hazelwood, Missouri

Dr. Abe C. Van Der Puy ~ Chairman of the Board
World Radio Missionary ~ Fellowship, Inc. ~ Opa Locka, Florida

Just three of the many listed. NAU was between Towns & Der Puy.

Ben Thinkin

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Alternate translations might prove interesting. Even Trinitarians scholars reveal certain verses might be translated differently such as

Heb 1:8 But of the Son he says, "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom.

Normally a verse that shows the Son is God...Yet even Trinitarians agree it can be translated "God is your throne" or something like that


RWP
It is not certain whether ho theos is here the vocative (address with the nominative form as in Joh_20:28 with the Messiah termed theos as is possible, Joh_1:18) or ho theos is nominative (subject or predicate) with estin (is) understood: “God is thy throne” or “Thy throne is God.” Either makes good sense.

NET bible commentary
Or possibly, "Your throne is God forever and ever." This translation is quite doubtful, however, since (1) in the context the Son is being contrasted to the angels and is presented as far better than they. The imagery of God being the Son's throne would seem to be of God being his authority. If so, in what sense could this not be said of the angels? In what sense is the Son thus contrasted with the angels? (2) The μέν...δέ (men...de) construction that connects Heb_1:7 with Heb_1:8 clearly lays out this contrast: "On the one hand, he says of the angels...on the other hand, he says of the Son." Thus, although it is grammatically possible that θεός (theos) in Heb_1:8 should be taken as a predicate nominative, the context and the correlative conjunctions are decidedly against it. Heb_1:8 is thus a strong affirmation of the deity of Christ.

Vincents Word Studies
I retain the vocative, although the translation of the Hebrew is doubtful. The following renderings have been proposed: “thy throne (which is a throne) of God”: “thy throne is (a throne) of God”: “God is thy throne.” Some suspect that the Hebrew text is defective.

Bump

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

http://www.dtl.org/versions/misc/translators.htm

Thanks.

That "Overview Committee" appears to have met before the work was begun to present an idea of what kinds of things the prospective buyers of a new publication would be looking for.

It seems to have been more of a "focus group" for marketing purposes than having anything to do with the actual work of translation, revision and publication. It's a far cry from saying he was involved in any way with the "over all process." I suppose that's why his name never appears on the lists of the NKJV committee members.

Sadly, Bro. Urshan's scholarship was pretty much limited to what we saw on the Ankerberg show. He was a politician and an organizer, not a Biblical scholar by any means.

[Jeffrey]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

"everyone" might not, but since all the negative criticism here is on Oneness, let's be balanced. MOST of our "translations" are from Trinitarian sources. Trinitarians don't say "we all have the truth, you Oneness, you JWs"...they say rather there is one truth and THEY have it. It's not a bad thing to say "truth"..it's not a bad thing to have an opinion. You say "to the degree you do"...yet it was not me that started all the anti-Oneness criticism..yet you chose to focus on me...personally again.

Let's recap...I did not start this thread. I did not take the focus OF the thread onto Oneness people. I'm simply trying to give a balanced counter to all the anti-Oneness criticism to show that it's NOT just Oneness that say "we have the truth" or that it's NOT just Oneness that have an interest in translations

I'm not sure how much "Trinitarian" has to do with their work with the Text though. I saw a few of your post and would be interested in seeing more. You seem pretty set on a Trinitarian conspiracy.

And before you take it all personal and start a big hissy fit feeling attacked, I'm simply interacting PERSONALLY with YOUR post. That's what we do on forums, Prax. Sheesh. If I'm not allowed to do that with you, then just send me that memo. TOUCHY!

I can't even say in a blanket statement that "all who believe the Trinity" with regard to godhead think they have "all the truth." I just can't say that in my experience. I can say they feel they have more a handle in terms of godhead. I can also say that some would agree they have more clarity in accuracy of teaching. But "all truth" is language I haven't heard much outside of the fellowship I grew up in, and one that you're very familiar with.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Jeffrey

What does it mean to be on the committee? How many are on the committee? Are there primary, secondary, etc committees?

I'm not sure what NU's qualifications are to be on such a committee, other than a privilege of honor, like someone that gets to witness it.

In looking at a lot of the names it seems many are merely "reverends"...Im pretty sure they include them for balance not expertise.

Also being on a committee doesn't necessarily mean being one of the members that actually translate.