For those that left the UPC...

[geekette]

Originally Posted by Mirth1981

Hi...I don't intend for this thread to be started as a debate. I would just like to hear stories from those that have left the UPC.

Specifically...What made you finally decide to leave?

This was a long time ago (just over thirty years ago--I was 19). I took the holiness standards very, very seriously. Very Seriously. But I also realized that I couldn't keep them. I skipped Sunday evening church twice so I could watch "The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe" on my landlady's TV. The guilt for doing that consumed me. I took everything so very, very seriously. I developed insane headaches every Sunday from the stress. I got to the point where I thought I'd be better off dead, because then I wouldn't feel like I was constantly breaking the rules and disappointing Jesus.

Was it difficult?

It was extremely difficult. I'd dropped out of college (where I was an honor student) and moved in with church people. Consequently, I wasn't on good relations with my parents and I had to apologize when I moved back to the house.

Then I had nightmares for weeks and months afterward about how I'd abandoned the church. Important church members showed up in my dreams to remonstrate with me. For sure I was going to hell. I became suicidal. The mother of one of my high school friends had to basically talk me "off the ledge." She'd seen me in the hall at the community college and told me to come to her house to talk to her as I looked awful.

Were you able to find a church that wasn't "easy believism" but yet one that didn't enforce extra-biblical principles where you could go and worship God in your own way?

For about a year afterward, I went to another UPC with a friend of mine from the community college. Then I went off to university in another city. Now I live in an entirely different state. I've occasionally dropped in on church but never felt compelled to stay.

Now, considering that on some days I think of myself as an agnostic and on others an atheist, I'd say that I'd gone way beyond your concerns and I can't answer your question.

Do you have any regrets?

Yes. I miss the certainty I had then. But I also don't miss the incredible strain I was under.

I also wish that I'd been diagnosed and treated for chronic major depression then. But that didn't happen for another two decades.

Anything you wish you had done differently?

Maybe if I hadn't left so abruptly. But I really was just this side of a nervous breakdown or worse.

How is your walk with God now? Do you still suffer from self condemnation and feel brainwashed?

Since I can't say that I believe God exists, I don't have a walk with God. As for self-condemnation and brainwashing, after this long, the answer's no. If anything, I'm probably exceedingly cynical about people's motivations. I know I always question my own motivations. "Am I doing X because I think it will get me in good graces?" I ask the question far less now that I am not sure if God exists.

I should note that I live with a real contradiction: I went to a newish Apostolic church last Sunday and the pastor pegged me right off as having Apostolic background. (I'm still trying to figure out how he could tell; it couldn't just be the long hair.) However, I felt compelled to go home that afternoon and write a long list of "Why I'd Make a Lousy Apostolic." Of course, the list started with, "Some days I'm agnostic and some days I'm atheist."

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by geekette

I should note that I live with a real contradiction: I went to a newish Apostolic church last Sunday and the pastor pegged me right off as having Apostolic background. (I'm still trying to figure out how he could tell; it couldn't just be the long hair.) However, I felt compelled to go home that afternoon and write a long list of "Why I'd Make a Lousy Apostolic." Of course, the list started with, "Some days I'm agnostic and some days I'm atheist."

You may not make a good apostolic but you would make a good Christian.

[missourimary]

Originally Posted by geekette

...I should note that I live with a real contradiction: I went to a newish Apostolic church last Sunday and the pastor pegged me right off as having Apostolic background. (I'm still trying to figure out how he could tell; it couldn't just be the long hair.) ...

If it helps any, it seems like most of the time when I go into a situation that was familiar to me years ago, I fall back into the same patterns even though I'm a much different person now. At a class reunion, I became the shy listener that I was in school. In the same way, around Apostolics someone might use a definitely Apostolic phrase, dress to standard, carry themselves a certain way, know certain key verses and react a certain way to them, know all the songs, react differently than a visitor to altar call (big clue), or simply not be surprised by the worship style. Those would all be clues to an observant person.

[RandyWayne]

Originally Posted by missourimary

If it helps any, it seems like most of the time when I go into a situation that was familiar to me years ago, I fall back into the same patterns even though I'm a much different person now. At a class reunion, I became the shy listener that I was in school. In the same way, around Apostolics someone might use a definitely Apostolic phrase, dress to standard, carry themselves a certain way, know certain key verses and react a certain way to them, know all the songs, react differently than a visitor to altar call (big clue), or simply not be surprised by the worship style. Those would all be clues to an observant person.

This is key here. So even though I grew up in the UPC church, if I always look like THIS, they will never know I ever stepped foot in one.



Actually, this is sorta/kinda my reaction (inwardly) now when I see some of the stuff I took for granted for so many years.

If your a lady, it may help to throw out this as a reaction.

[faithit166]

Originally Posted by geekette

This was a long time ago (just over thirty years ago--I was 19). I took the holiness standards very, very seriously. Very Seriously. But I also realized that I couldn't keep them. I skipped Sunday evening church twice so I could watch "The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe" on my landlady's TV. The guilt for doing that consumed me. I took everything so very, very seriously. I developed insane headaches every Sunday from the stress. I got to the point where I thought I'd be better off dead, because then I wouldn't feel like I was constantly breaking the rules and disappointing Jesus.



It was extremely difficult. I'd dropped out of college (where I was an honor student) and moved in with church people. Consequently, I wasn't on good relations with my parents and I had to apologize when I moved back to the house.

Then I had nightmares for weeks and months afterward about how I'd abandoned the church. Important church members showed up in my dreams to remonstrate with me. For sure I was going to hell. I became suicidal. The mother of one of my high school friends had to basically talk me "off the ledge." She'd seen me in the hall at the community college and told me to come to her house to talk to her as I looked awful.



For about a year afterward, I went to another UPC with a friend of mine from the community college. Then I went off to university in another city. Now I live in an entirely different state. I've occasionally dropped in on church but never felt compelled to stay.

Now, considering that on some days I think of myself as an agnostic and on others an atheist, I'd say that I'd gone way beyond your concerns and I can't answer your question.



Yes. I miss the certainty I had then. But I also don't miss the incredible strain I was under.

I also wish that I'd been diagnosed and treated for chronic major depression then. But that didn't happen for another two decades.



Maybe if I hadn't left so abruptly. But I really was just this side of a nervous breakdown or worse.



Since I can't say that I believe God exists, I don't have a walk with God. As for self-condemnation and brainwashing, after this long, the answer's no. If anything, I'm probably exceedingly cynical about people's motivations. I know I always question my own motivations. "Am I doing X because I think it will get me in good graces?" I ask the question far less now that I am not sure if God exists.

I should note that I live with a real contradiction: I went to a newish Apostolic church last Sunday and the pastor pegged me right off as having Apostolic background. (I'm still trying to figure out how he could tell; it couldn't just be the long hair.) However, I felt compelled to go home that afternoon and write a long list of "Why I'd Make a Lousy Apostolic." Of course, the list started with, "Some days I'm agnostic and some days I'm atheist."

did you ever recieve the gift of the holy ghost and if so can you kinda share your testimony on when you recieved it?

[geekette]

Originally Posted by faithit166

did you ever recieve the gift of the holy ghost and if so can you kinda share your testimony on when you recieved it?

Yes. May 15, 1977. One of my friends, Liz, was praying through, and I was praying with her and the attention turned to me and I began to speak in tongues.

Being honest, I can't say that I have a testimony of it today, but it had a huge impact on my life.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by geekette

This was a long time ago (just over thirty years ago--I was 19). I took the holiness standards very, very seriously. Very Seriously. But I also realized that I couldn't keep them. I skipped Sunday evening church twice so I could watch "The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe" on my landlady's TV. The guilt for doing that consumed me. I took everything so very, very seriously. I developed insane headaches every Sunday from the stress. I got to the point where I thought I'd be better off dead, because then I wouldn't feel like I was constantly breaking the rules and disappointing Jesus.



It was extremely difficult. I'd dropped out of college (where I was an honor student) and moved in with church people. Consequently, I wasn't on good relations with my parents and I had to apologize when I moved back to the house.

Then I had nightmares for weeks and months afterward about how I'd abandoned the church. Important church members showed up in my dreams to remonstrate with me. For sure I was going to hell. I became suicidal. The mother of one of my high school friends had to basically talk me "off the ledge." She'd seen me in the hall at the community college and told me to come to her house to talk to her as I looked awful.



For about a year afterward, I went to another UPC with a friend of mine from the community college. Then I went off to university in another city. Now I live in an entirely different state. I've occasionally dropped in on church but never felt compelled to stay.

Now, considering that on some days I think of myself as an agnostic and on others an atheist, I'd say that I'd gone way beyond your concerns and I can't answer your question.



Yes. I miss the certainty I had then. But I also don't miss the incredible strain I was under.

I also wish that I'd been diagnosed and treated for chronic major depression then. But that didn't happen for another two decades.



Maybe if I hadn't left so abruptly. But I really was just this side of a nervous breakdown or worse.



Since I can't say that I believe God exists, I don't have a walk with God. As for self-condemnation and brainwashing, after this long, the answer's no. If anything, I'm probably exceedingly cynical about people's motivations. I know I always question my own motivations. "Am I doing X because I think it will get me in good graces?" I ask the question far less now that I am not sure if God exists.


I should note that I live with a real contradiction: I went to a newish Apostolic church last Sunday and the pastor pegged me right off as having Apostolic background. (I'm still trying to figure out how he could tell; it couldn't just be the long hair.) However, I felt compelled to go home that afternoon and write a long list of "Why I'd Make a Lousy Apostolic." Of course, the list started with, "Some days I'm agnostic and some days I'm atheist."

What an intriguing post. I am touched by your honesty. I believe that doubt is a pre requisite to faith. I would not trust anyone who never had their doubts.

When I left the UPC I knew what I didn't believe, but I didn't know what I did believe. I felt like I traded in a whole new God. I used to have the view that God was rather mean, but coming to an understanding of grace changed all of that. God is extremely loving even in the Old Testament. The only time God described himself was to Moses on the mountain when he was giving the law and He described himself in ways that the Jews call the thirteen attributes of God or of his mercy.

I am now a pastor and get to share that grace with people all of the time. A good book about grace I am reading right now is "Destined to Reign" by Joseph Prince. Feel free to inbox me anytime. I would love to talk to you more. Our image of God makes all the difference. If God was so cruel as to send to hell all those who had not spoken in tongues, I was either going to have to be an athiest, agnostic, an enemy of God, or I would have to rediscover who God really is. Ironically, I think there are some in the apostolic movement who are also very grace oriented, but sadly they have to express it a bit undercover. Thanks for your honest sharing. It is a gift.

[DrPhil]

Ironically, geekette, I believe "The lion, the witch and the wardrobe" had the answer to the guilt you were feeling. I love the scene where the lion is lying on the stone tablets dying and it dawns on me that he is lying on the law that is crumbling beneath him. C.S. Lewis was at least an agnostic if not an athiest. His book "Surprised by Joy" shares how he came to faith.

[faithit166]

testimony on my heart,i fell away from god but right before i left the lord spoke to me"he told me that i had lost my first love,he told me that satan was trying to take me to another place and that he was the only one who could bring me into his kingdom not long after i left the church a few years went by and i wanted to start walking to get some of my weight off i went out one evening and bought two magazines it was this one magazine i truly wanted (the smaller one)i just picked the bigger one up as an extra i went home layed them on the table got side tracked doing things that needed done later on i went to get that small magazine it was no where to be found but the bigger one was right there on the table i didnt want that one i wanted the smaller one i searched my house up and down looking for that even had my hubby and son searching to i was so upset i must have looked more than an hour no where to be found i went ahead picked up the bigger one went in the bedroom and started reading it i was so upset it was that small one i wanted i just threw that magazine on the floor and went to sleep.i had to get up it was about 4 in the morning i was in the kitchen putting my shoes on for work as i was kneeling down to tie my boots i glanced in the living room and right in front of the couch on the floor was that small magazine my house wasnt cluttered it was not their the night before but it was now laying there as i went to pick it up the lord spoke to me"he said when you search for me the way you searched for this magazine thats when ill be found.we must seek god with our whole heart, hes not far from each and everyone of us god bless.

[geekette]

Originally Posted by RandyWayne

This is key here. So even though I grew up in the UPC church, if I always look like THIS, they will never know I ever stepped foot in one.



Actually, this is sorta/kinda my reaction (inwardly) now when I see some of the stuff I took for granted for so many years.

If your a lady, it may help to throw out this as a reaction.

I see what you're saying. One of the other visitors had a "deer in the headlights" look. Me, I fit in so well that the pastor's wife (who was running the overhead program) turned to me during the singing and asked me if I knew the name of the song? Me: Nope.