Witchcraft = medication

[rgcraig]

Originally Posted by Ferd

I think that stems from the understanding that death entered the world thru sin.

i agree that sin is the catalyst for all death and all sickness is an extention of death.

I dont believe that all the sickness we suffer from is a result of our individual sin.

Me either, but I believe because of sin we lost that part of our brain to either block pain or something. That's what I'm talking about.

God created man whole - - sin took that away in the Garden of Eve.

When someone finds out they have cancer the patients that strive to keep a positive attitude tend to overcome some battles. I'm not discounting faith and healing from God at all. I'm just talking about the physical part alone.

Isn't it proven that we use just a small percentage of our brains now? Is that because we lost some ability when sin entered the picture?

[Ferd]

Originally Posted by tbpew

Ferd,
I can not recall bringing a FAITH-linkage into my presentation of what I think of as a DILEMNA concerning the overcharged/overwhelming mindset of sythethic chemcials as a life solution for the saint of God. I fully understand that there is always a linkage between God provision of good gifts and our operation in the realm of his Spirit (a.k.a faith).

My present participation in this thread is more based in a concern that we CONCLUDE that ingesting sythethic chemicals for symptom mangement IS GOD's handiwork!

permit an example to hopefully get 'me' out of your mind as being in the "Salem witch-hunting" category.
If I have a neighbor who has become a captive to Heroin and I suspect hiim of being a thief, and my neighborhood has had several B&E's in the last few months:
I can:
Approach No. 1
Erect a high fence around my property and place chains and locks on the gates and I can install surveilance cameras and hire a private security company to patrol my neighborhood.
or:
Approach No. 2
I can seek the Spirit of God to deliver him from his captivity and then avail myself to serve when God established the ocassions/seasons when I have access to him.

So,

Is anything that I did in approach no. 1 sin?
I can not see any of these actions as a transgression of God's Word.

But my approach is limited by the arm of flesh and the resources I have available. Afterall, to do NOTHING would be foolish/unwise. But this approach will FOREVER require maintenance and consume resources of time, money and emotional energy. Following this path should lead me to knock, seek and ask until God provides understanding.

If we are not able to hear from God, we have nothing to establish our faith upon. Our only course is persue what we know or have access to, within the realm of our FIRST birth. The aching saddeness is when we have tried what we know to do, but do not know where God is.

My larger concern is when we don't have a lifestyle that is familiar in seeking God because we believe we have already found him....at the corner pharmacy.

.......

thank you for your addition of LIFESTYLE. You have added a vitally importance aspect concerning how we attend to, or neglect, the stewardship of the chemistry of our own bodies, the habitation of God.

I think I understand what you are saying. We dont have near enough teaching on living in Gods provision. we often do find our answers to health issues in a bottle of pills instead of in God...

but I also think these things must be in balance. Do I go to God for all my needs? Absolutly. But i also fully believe that God has given man knowlege that has led to the ability to fix many of the ailments we suffer from.

Man discoverd some time around the civil war that using anticeptics cut down drastically on people dying from infection. I seriously doubt any good christian would neglect to clean a wound in favor for "trusting God".

the reality is when we are hurt we should seek God for healing. we should always turn to God and trust in God for everything. that doesnt mean we should neglect simple proven practices that will insure good health either does it?

isnt balance the real key?

Clearly we find far too much neglecting of God and His provision. but we all know stories of those who took this to the extreme and died of simple sicknesses that could have been treated by a doctor.

Originally Posted by LadyChocolate

I'm not Ferd, but in my opinion....when medicine is said to be equal to witchcraft then one would only assume that God would be against medicine since he is against witchcraft... that is just what it appears....imo

It's in the Bible, so ask God why it's there.

Originally Posted by tbpew

I am not prepared to link God with the pharmaceutical industry or its practitioners.

At best they are different options available for a person to choose.
At worst, they may be in opposition.

The principle of ingesting something that may have therapeutic benefit with regard to managing a natural consequence with these bodies, is a scripturally outlined opportunity. Extending that confidence to pave a road of acceptance concerning the large scale medicating we see in our current societal approach to health care is NOT consistent with " a little wine for the stomach and strong drink for the dieing."

I do not believe that the merry heart does good like a medicine.
The Hebrew word gehaw(?) is REMEDY or CURE. KJV translators may have been OK to use the two words interchangeable [medicine and CURE], but who among us would believe that medicine and CURE are synonymous or interchangeable.

Our world is SUPER SATURATED with synthetic chemical compounds that we put into our blood stream. Every one of these choices will need to be subsequently filtered by our liver or kidneys. If that is all perfectly consistent with God's plan, how about we just drop ALL PHARMA and just drink a little wine when our stomach is upset.

I am confident that our body chemistry is the line of demarcation between body and spirit. It is an aspect of our lives that should be maintained with all vigilance and direction from our Lord.

Amen Brother!!! Preach it!!!

[clgustaveson]

Originally Posted by Oneness Man

It's in the Bible, so ask God why it's there.

Nope.... and you keep flip flopping John Kerry... is medicine evil or not?

Originally Posted by LadyChocolate

Let me say that I do not believe this. I do not believe that it is a sin to take medicine that helps your body. I opt for a more natural approach myself but to say that taking things like insulin and such is a sin is beyond me...... I also believe that no matter what one does, God does still hold the keys to life and death....!!!!

Where did anyone say it was a sin to take medication? You must be reading something that isn't there in any post.

[clgustaveson]

Originally Posted by Oneness Man

Where did anyone say it was a sin to take medication? You must be reading something that isn't there in any post.

Again make up your mind, is witchcraft not a sin?

Originally Posted by tbpew

I will, even though I am extending out beyond my more practiced areas for discussion.

Any spirit, seeking to have influence within a vessel/creature needs a portal.

Our bodies internal system codes are all written on DNA ( a coded map written using the molecular geometry of a nucleic acid...chemistry)

communication on a cellular level is accomplished using RNA, which transmits the DNA information to proteins produced by the cells.

So, if an influence can effect the chemistry of the body, if can have access to the control house of every aspect of well-being, pertaining to the creature.

Most everything in our human body control system has an associated sucretion or some type of chemical release to signal some other chemical release to signal some action.

If you can affect the chemistry, you can affect the operation of the vessel.....afterall, drugs absolutely do have an effectiveness at least on the symptomatic level. Sadly, most modern so-called 'therapys' are not curative but rather symptom management (the whole auto-immune suppressors/inhibitors for example).

So what is so interesting is how a change in our chemistry can (or does) effect the cellular coding (DNA) that maps the next generation of cellular reproduction (mitosis) and the genetic map we pass down through human reproduction.

So, by way of a hypothesis:
many folks believe that the mercury preservatives in immunization treatments has resulted in the increase cases of children born with autistic symptoms. None of us would argue with the POSSIBILITY that a chemical influence changes the course of human life and the manner in which that life is lived.

Ok then,
Can alcohol change the body's chemistry and subsequently even alter the DNA or RNA pattern, plan, or code?

Can bitterness change the chemical secretions from various glands that accumulate to have an influence on the DNA or RNA fundamental systems?

Can love, hate, envy, strife, fear....result in a chronic series of glandular secretions that, over time, actually alter the cellular design map?

If a single inoculation of a mercury-based preservative can change the entire developmental track of a precious child, then which of us knows how to quantify what extended ingesting of Zoloft or Prozac or any of the host of antibiotics that are so over prescribed, maybe its the potent family of alkaloids like caffeine or the quintessential refined white sugars or high fructose corn syrup.

Hey pick your poison, but each one of them provide an entryway into your body chemistry.

Is it coincidence that the scriptural warning is that we not be caught in the snare the has occassion through our hearts being overcharged with:
surfeiting,
drunkenness,
and cares of this life

I submit that all three of these categories directly effect the chemistry of your body, and in doing so, render you captive, unaware, in a tragic snare.

That is so awesome Brother!!! Very well said.

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

Then what do you define as "medicine"? (The part that God isn't against?)

Abigail,

I don't define medicine, because you're using it as bait.

Originally Posted by tbpew

FERD,
I am willing to discuss uncomfortable things because I see them as major snares in the life of the saints of God.

There is no wisdom in coming into any group of folks in the year 2008 and start saying that taking any kind of pills is evidence that you are of the devil and you and your witchcraft supporters are hell-bound captives.

Is the alternative, just say nothing?
Folks who are admonished by scripture to understand that our bodies are the habitation of God must confront the impact of ingesting sythethic chemicals compounds DEMANDS continual vigilance involving the position these chemicals are placing them.

Is the alternative learn to embrace a viewpoint that God is the provider of all these new sythethic chemicals that we are instructed to ingest, not only today, but for each and every day for the rest of our lives. FERD, DO YOU BELIEVE THIS?

Or should we just not talk about anything uncomfortable because people we love may be presently in the midst of such activity.

FERD, I do not believe God gets ANY GLORY from a person living the rest of their lives injecting insulin into their bloodstream. God's mercy is still a part of their lives but their present actions and dependancies are NOT AUTHORED BY HIM.

Are these people in sin because of unbelief? I have no basis or ability to make such a conclusion. BUT a chronic, perpetual, symptom managment approach is NOT GOD's remedy....it is man's medicine, 39 stripes were not supplied to the back of our Lord so that we could have chemicals available to dump into your blood to mange symptoms.

Amen Brother!!! Showing a scripture about what is written and then people trying to say that one is making it a sin is pretty outlandish to me.