Appreciate your comments Nitehawk...blessings.....
Heavenlyone, my mouth fell wide open at your statement: "when Jesus was born, there wasn't much Scripture....Jesus did not preach much from the Scriptures" Say what??????????????????? Ever heard of the Old Testament? Have you never seen the NT phrase, "For it is written...."? I'm honestly dumbfounded at such an ignorant statement [not being ugly].
Regarding Noah, hmmmm, let's see, you have to go back to the beginning of creation to find support for women preachers in the NT church??????? And that's relavant....how? We have the Scriptural canon today, & the NT preachers constantly appealed to Scriptures to support their doctrinal posture....not dreams/visions. This is N-O-T "prophecy."
I noticed how you folks omit the primary definition of "Prophesy," which is to "for-tell". Primarily, prophecy deals w/ the spontaneous moving of God's Spirit to reveal the hidden [see Elizabeth, Zachariah, Lk.1]...not preaching a sermon from the Scriptures! The definitions that you are giving is only secondary, possible definitions. Why not list Strong's [for one] definition? And, I do not "do the same thing today"....& call it preaching [misrepresentation]. I Tim. 2, I Cor. 14, etc. is dealing w/ a church-setting, as I've pointed out NUMEROUS times.
Still waiting on you to deal w/ I Tim. 2, etc., etc., etc.....probably for a looooong time! Godsdrummer is sooo ridiculous that it does not even merit a scholarly response. But, I'll probably get around to him soon, when things slow down for me. In sum, he rerlegates the great apostle Paul's teaching to only relevant for his day!! Hmmm, I wonder if that also includes his teachings on faith?? Paul. appealed to headship in I Tim. 2...not just some arbitrary cultural idea!
I actually agree w/ Sis. Alvear...we'll be judged by SCRIPTURE [such as I Tim. 2, I Cor. 14, I Tim. 3, etc.]....not dream & visions.
I have read them. Prophesying is not preaching. Anyone who is in the ministry should know that. Big difference.
That's your opinion, but that's not reality. Both involve speaking the Word of God. Not anything close to being a 'big difference'.
Most of the 'preaching' done in the Bible is actually speaking a direct word from God, not preaching from the Bible. There weren't many scriptures written down for people to 'preach' with. Understand that even when the minor prophets were around, there were millions of people already on the planet. No bibles available, even to most prophets. Yet they preached.
Quote:
Ne 6:7
And thou hast also appointed prophets to preach of thee at Jerusalem, saying, There is a king in Judah: and now shall it be reported to the king according to these words. Come now therefore, and let us take counsel together.
Isa 61:1
The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;
Jon 3:2
Arise, go unto Nineveh, that great city, and preach unto it the preaching that I bid thee.
Here are three examples of prophets preaching. Big difference you say? The scriptures don't agree. Those prophets weren't preaching from scrolls, yet they preached the Word of God all the same.
__________________
I've gone and done it now! I'm on Facebook!!!
prophecy-[propheteia] the speaking forth of the mind and council of God.
preach-[euangelizo] to bring or show good tiding. preach-[kerusso] to be a heard, to proclaim
According to the Bible, as I posted above, prophets speaking any Word of God was considered preaching as well. Like your definitions above state, preaching is 'to proclaim'. That's what prophets as well as preachers do.
__________________
I've gone and done it now! I'm on Facebook!!!
That's your opinion, but that's not reality. Both involve speaking the Word of God. Not anything close to being a 'big difference'.
Most of the 'preaching' done in the Bible is actually speaking a direct word from God, not preaching from the Bible. There weren't many scriptures written down for people to 'preach' with. Understand that even when the minor prophets were around, there were millions of people already on the planet. No bibles available, even to most prophets. Yet they preached.
Here are three examples of prophets preaching. Big difference you say? The scriptures don't agree. Those prophets weren't preaching from scrolls, yet they preached the Word of God all the same.
Since, as you claim above [using 3 OT Scriptures], "most of the 'preaching' done in the Bible is actually speaking a direct word from God, NOT PREACHING FROM THE BIBLE." Then, what are women preachers today doing taking a text from the Scriptures? And please provide us a Biblical example of this preactice:___________?
Do you understand the difference between Preaching and Prophesying? Jonah was an OT "prophet"...not a part of the NT church's 5-fold ministry. Soooomuch more to say on this matter, but noooo sense in it when you refuse to deal w/ the myriad of Scriptures that I've presented, yet expect us to deal w/ yours [which are entirely eisegesical]!
To the other person about rings & Is. 3, God-Breathed Scripture repeatedly condemns the literal wearing of jewelry by God's people. And Is. 3 still stands as a positive witness against the practice, & is not so easily explained away w/ just a whisk of the keyboard.
Isaiah 3:14-15 "The Lord will enter into judgment with the ancients of his people, and the princes thereof: for ye have eaten up the vineyard; the spoil of the poor is in your houses. What mean ye that ye beat my people to pieces and grind the faces of the poor? saith the Lord God of hosts."
Here, the judgment of the Lord is declared. His judgment is for their treatment of the poor. In verse 16 we read of a another judgment in addition to this. Its cause is that the daughters of Zion are haughty, and walk with stretched forth necks and wanton eyes, walking and mincing as they go, and making a tinkling with their feet.
Then in verse 17 until the end of the chapter the actual judgments for these actions are spelled out. Show me rdp if you will, where have I whisked away anything? Aren't verses 14-16 the things which the Lord is judging them for? Aren't verses 17 and on the verses where his judgment for those things are being described?
I never spoke on other scriptures, I only said that Isaiah 3 is a poor illustration of God being angered simply because of the wearing of jewelry. If my interpretation of this passage is in error, show me so that I may learn.
Last edited by jfrog; 10-08-2009 at 02:12 PM.
Reason: Quoted more than I needed
Re: Appreciate your comments Nitehawk...blessings.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdp
Heavenlyone, my mouth fell wide open at your statement: "when Jesus was born, there wasn't much Scripture....Jesus did not preach much from the Scriptures" Say what??????????????????? Ever heard of the Old Testament? Have you never seen the NT phrase, "For it is written...."? I'm honestly dumbfounded at such an ignorant statement [not being ugly].
Regarding Noah, hmmmm, let's see, you have to go back to the beginning of creation to find support for women preachers in the NT church??????? And that's relavant....how? We have the Scriptural canon today, & the NT preachers constantly appealed to Scriptures to support their doctrinal posture....not dreams/visions. This is N-O-T "prophecy."
I noticed how you folks omit the primary definition of "Prophesy," which is to "for-tell". Primarily, prophecy deals w/ the spontaneous moving of God's Spirit to reveal the hidden [see Elizabeth, Zachariah, Lk.1]...not preaching a sermon from the Scriptures! The definitions that you are giving is only secondary, possible definitions. Why not list Strong's [for one] definition? And, I do not "do the same thing today"....& call it preaching [misrepresentation]. I Tim. 2, I Cor. 14, etc. is dealing w/ a church-setting, as I've pointed out NUMEROUS times.
Still waiting on you to deal w/ I Tim. 2, etc., etc., etc.....probably for a looooong time! Godsdrummer is sooo ridiculous that it does not even merit a scholarly response. But, I'll probably get around to him soon, when things slow down for me. In sum, he rerlegates the great apostle Paul's teaching to only relevant for his day!! Hmmm, I wonder if that also includes his teachings on faith?? Paul. appealed to headship in I Tim. 2...not just some arbitrary cultural idea!
I actually agree w/ Sis. Alvear...we'll be judged by SCRIPTURE [such as I Tim. 2, I Cor. 14, I Tim. 3, etc.]....not dream & visions.
THIS is why I won't get into such debates, I might come across lookin
like a fool..{not that I might not have already } BUT I do easily place my 'opinions', lol
IMHO, It takes a 'man of GOD' to teach such topics, I'm just a sheeple, although I do love reading His Word..and I don't have much trouble in understanding what it says/means either.
He shows me a lot enough for me to know what I need to know., certainly to know my place from which to serve,
for His purposes.
I also agee with your last line up there about Scripture.
Hang in there, you're doing fine.
__________________ You can tell more about people
by what they say about others...than by what others
say about them.
Isaiah 3:14-15 "The Lord will enter into judgment with the ancients of his people, and the princes thereof: for ye have eaten up the vineyard; the spoil of the poor is in your houses. What mean ye that ye beat my people to pieces and grind the faces of the poor? saith the Lord God of hosts."
Here, the judgment of the Lord is declared. His judgment is for their treatment of the poor. In verse 16 we read of a another judgment in addition to this. Its cause is that the daughters of Zion are haughty, and walk with stretched forth necks and wanton eyes, walking and mincing as they go, and making a tinkling with their feet.
Then in verse 17 until the end of the chapter the actual judgments for these actions are spelled out. Show me rdp if you will, where have I whisked away anything? Aren't verses 14-16 the things which the Lord is judging them for? Aren't verses 17 and on the verses where his judgment for those things are being described?
I never spoke on other scriptures, I only said that Isaiah 3 is a poor illustration of God being angered simply because of the wearing of jewelry. If my interpretation of this passage is in error, show me so that I may learn.
Awww, I'm nobody to teach you, but I will simply point out that God is the one who took the time to enumerate their ornamentation in connection w/ the judgement that He was to visit upon them. Don't have my Bible w/ me, but doesn't vs. 1 [or somewhere around there] say "Therefore, because the daughters of Zion.....", then lists the various ornaments? "Therefore" & "because" are explanatory terms of His impending judgement.
Heavenlyone, have you not noticed that all 3 of your Scriptural references [from the OT economy, by the way], each have a M-A-N doing the preaching?
Now, pls. provide the Scripture reference where God tells a woman to "Preach" to a church congregation? Or, even just one example of it ever happening will suffice:______________? In fact, you can even use the OT!
Do you not fear to tamper w/ God's Holy Word like this?
Heavenlyone, have you not noticed that all 3 of your Scriptural references [from the OT economy, by the way], each have a M-A-N doing the preaching?
Now, pls. provide the Scripture reference where God tells a woman to "Preach" to a church congregation? Or, even just one example of it ever happening will suffice:______________? In fact, you can even use the OT!
Do you not fear to tamper w/ God's Holy Word like this?
Tks. Simplyme........you truly are a blessing!
Tks. and wow! Been a long time since someone said I was a blessing,
you made my day, rdp
__________________ You can tell more about people
by what they say about others...than by what others
say about them.
Awww, I'm nobody to teach you, but I will simply point out that God is the one who took the time to enumerate their ornamentation in connection w/ the judgement that He was to visit upon them. Don't have my Bible w/ me, but doesn't vs. 1 [or somewhere around there] say "Therefore, because the daughters of Zion.....", then lists the various ornaments? "Therefore" & "because" are explanatory terms of His impending judgement.
I guess I need to quote verse 16. Isaiah 3:16 "Moreover, the Lord saith, Because the daughters of Zion are haughty, and walk with stretched forth necks and wanton eyes, walking and mincing as they go, and making a tinkling with their feet:"
Let's also take a look at verse 17. Isaiah 3:17 "Therefore, the Lord will smite with a scab the crown of the head of the daughters of Zion, and the Lord will discover their secret parts."
The verse 17 beginning with "therefore" clearly is talking about what those judgments would be. It is immediately after the verse 17 which introduces judgments (God smiting with a scab the crown of the head, and discovering their secret parts) that a list of various items appear, most of which I am ignorant to what are. In introducing the list of items, Verse 18, it begins "In that day the Lord will...". Surely, if in verse 16 it says "because" in an explanatory sense (we agree on something!! YAY!) and in verse 17 it describes some judgments, and in verse 18 it describes more of the Lord's actions (paraphrasing it says, in that day the Lord will...), surely those actions described are judgments and not explanatory of why the judgment is coming.
} BUT I do easily place my 'opinions', lol 
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