How close should a pastor get to the members?

[Rhoni]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

Christ is The Shepherd, but there is a reference to the church being the "flock", and those who are their "overseers."

Acts 20:28 "Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood."

I Peter 5:1 The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed:
I Peter 5:2 Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight thereof, not by constraint, but willingly; not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind;
I Peter 5:3 Neither as being lords over God's heritage, but being ensamples to the flock.
I Peter 5:4 And when the chief Shepherd shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away.

The inference here seems to be that elders are like under-shepherds, (to Christ), caring for the flock, until He returns/appears.

Overseer is NOT the Shepherd. He/she is an underling and not the chief shepherd. FEED the flock is their job. Preach, teach, exhort...but NOT boss, manipulate, control, or command!.

It appears that many use these scriptures to be their private interpretation that the pastor is somehow in the stead of Christ [as does Catholicism has it's POPES/priests], but as it does not appear anywhere in the BIble to say the Pastor is the Shepherd!

Blessings, Rhoni

[Maple Leaf]

Originally Posted by Rhoni

The Pastor is NOT the Shepherd - Christ is. Is there scripture saying the Pastor is the Shepherd and the saints his flock?

Blessings, Rhoni

The word used for pastors in (Ephesians 4:11) "And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;" is:

NT:4166 poimen (poy-mane'); of uncertain affinity; a shepherd (literally or figuratively):

Poimen is the same word used for shepherd every time "shepherd" appears in the New Testament, save one.

Robertson comments: (Ephesians 4:11) This word poimeen is from a root meaning to protect. Jesus said the good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep (John 10:11) and called himself the Good Shepherd. In Heb 13:20 Christ is the Great Shepherd (cf. 1 Peter 2:25). Only here are preachers called shepherds (Latin: pastores) in the New Testament. But the verb poimainoo, to shepherd, is employed by Jesus to Peter (John 21:16), by Peter to other ministers (1 Peter 5:2), by Paul to the elders (bishops) of Ephesus (Acts 20:28). (from Robertson's Word Pictures in the New Testament)

Oh, and:

(1 Peter 5:1-4) "To the elders among you, I appeal as a fellow elder, a witness of Christ's sufferings and one who also will share in the glory to be revealed: 2 Be shepherds of God's flock that is under your care, serving as overseers — not because you must, but because you are willing, as God wants you to be; not greedy for money, but eager to serve; 3 not lording it over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock. 4 And when the Chief Shepherd appears, you will receive the crown of glory that will never fade away." (NIV)

[Rhoni]

Originally Posted by Maple Leaf

The word used for pastors in (Ephesians 4:11) "And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;" is:

NT:4166 poimen (poy-mane'); of uncertain affinity; a shepherd (literally or figuratively):

Poimen is the same word used for shepherd every time "shepherd" appears in the New Testament, save one.

Robertson comments: (Ephesians 4:11) This word poimeen is from a root meaning to protect. Jesus said the good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep (John 10:11) and called himself the Good Shepherd. In Heb 13:20 Christ is the Great Shepherd (cf. 1 Peter 2:25). Only here are preachers called shepherds (Latin: pastores) in the New Testament. But the verb poimainoo, to shepherd, is employed by Jesus to Peter (John 21:16), by Peter to other ministers (1 Peter 5:2), by Paul to the elders (bishops) of Ephesus (Acts 20:28). (from Robertson's Word Pictures in the New Testament)

Oh, and:

(1 Peter 5:1-4) "To the elders among you, I appeal as a fellow elder, a witness of Christ's sufferings and one who also will share in the glory to be revealed: 2 Be shepherds of God's flock that is under your care, serving as overseers — not because you must, but because you are willing, as God wants you to be; not greedy for money, but eager to serve; 3 not lording it over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock. 4 And when the Chief Shepherd appears, you will receive the crown of glory that will never fade away." (NIV)

Maple Leaf,

It is obvious many of you believe this but I haven't seen many if any at all ...Pastors that would lay down their lives for saints. Many of the Pastors want to discard any saints that disagree with anything or battle with things that others don't understand.

To me it seems idealistic in today's society, with today's pastors to SERVE. They want served, trusted, obeyed...but what is the point of reference for doing this? New converts are quick to do all these things but many of us who have been hurt, wounded by Pastors would not just unconditionally trust, serve, and least of all obey.

I still question the interpretation of scriptures that would even allude to giving allegiance to a Pastor unconditionally. I just can't drink the .

Just being honest here.

Respectfully, Rhoni

[Michael Phelps]

Originally Posted by Rhoni

Maple Leaf,

It is obvious many of you believe this but I haven't seen many if any at all ...Pastors that would lay down their lives for saints. Many of the Pastors want to discard any saints that disagree with anything or battle with things that others don't understand.

To me it seems idealistic in today's society, with today's pastors to SERVE. They want served, trusted, obeyed...but what is the point of reference for doing this? New converts are quick to do all these things but many of us who have been hurt, wounded by Pastors would not just unconditionally trust, serve, and least of all obey.

I still question the interpretation of scriptures that would even allude to giving allegiance to a Pastor unconditionally. I just can't drink the .

Just being honest here.

Respectfully, Rhoni

When I read this post, I feel sad for you, Rhoni.

In my experience, there are many pastors who would "lay down their lives" for the saints, and its unfortunate that you've had experiences that cause you to characterize the bulk of the ministry in this fashion.

[aak1972]

The shepherd leads his sheep. Sheep cannot be driven like cattle,it is hard to get behind a sheep and make it go where you want it to,but they will follow.

[Rhoni]

Speaking of elders....many profess to have the mind of God or even know how God does or does not work in a persons/saints life. Many get theri hints from forums such as this and put labels on people and advised pastors abotu people and they are dead wrong.

I think some of this goes back to the qualifications of pastors and elders. An elder is not someone with financial sense and a lot of money, nor just an old person...there are specific qualifications that must be met and I would like to see the documents and not loyalty to the pastor of some elders.

Again, just my suspicious and mistrustful opinion.

Respectfully, Rhoni

[Rhoni]

Originally Posted by aak1972

The shepherd leads his sheep. Sheep cannot be driven like cattle,it is hard to get behind a sheep and make it go where you want it to,but they will follow.

Sheep follow shepherds who love them like women submit to husbands who love them \.

[rgcraig]

Rhoni.

Were you not this kind of pastor/pastor wife when you were pastoring? Seems after your bad experience your outlook changed.

[Rhoni]

Originally Posted by Michael Phelps

When I read this post, I feel sad for you, Rhoni.

In my experience, there are many pastors who would "lay down their lives" for the saints, and its unfortunate that you've had experiences that cause you to characterize the bulk of the ministry in this fashion.

You know what Michael Phelps,

I feel sorry for me too...you don't know how much. I have no good point of reference for such a Pastor, or a husband.

Sorrowfully,
Rhoni

[Michael Phelps]

Originally Posted by Rhoni

You know what Michael Phelps,

I feel sorry for me too...you don't know how much. I have no good point of reference for such a Pastor, or a husband.

Sorrowfully,
Rhoni

I didn't say I felt sorry for you, I feel sad for you.

I don't pity you, I feel sad that you were treated in such a way by hurtful people.