***Bombshell: ALJC vs. NCO Battle Royale: The NCO/AWCF strike back ***

[Jack Shephard]

Originally Posted by pelathais

I agree with your sentiments about legalism, it's a bad thing. However for UPC and ALJC people to stick up for their orgs isn't really "legalism." Their response is to be expected and is simply part of the give and take that exists.

On another point, I too am a little troubled by the use/misuse of titles. In academic quarters a person with a PhD doesn't usually call themselves "Dr." Someone with a PhD from an unrecognized or "nontraditional" institution doesn't usually even bring it up.

"Bishops" in the New Testament were ordained as bishops. The term can be used in a technical sense like "overseer;" but in the NT the bishops were ordained by either the Apostles or their designated representatives. Basically, to qualify as a "Bishop" you had to be ordained as such by a recognized authority; sort of like being called a "Dr." in the paragraph above.

For "prophet", let me see your track record. 100% accuracy is required.

Originally Posted by pelathais

Typos are inevitable- but sometimes they are Freudian too. I wonder which this one is? Sorry, just had to laugh. I'm sure Phil has had his share of fellowhipping along with the fellowshipping.

You sir are rude. I am from TN and I speak in country grammar! LOL

Just kidding

The truth is that I was not saying some sticking up for their org as being legalist. I was saying that Elitist do often times. Legalists are very bad, but I stick up for what I believe but I am not a legalist just like someone who sticks up for their thing is not a legalist. Sorry for the confusion.

Originally Posted by bishoph

First Dr. Hutchins holds a Doctor of Divinity and thus the title is warranted, secondly many are using the title of Bishop these days in all of the Apostolic circles.

As for prophet, I am not sure that I agree with using this title unless one is willing to be scrutinized as the Bible allows for the office of prophet. It is one thing to be used in the prophetic ministry it is quite another to claim the office.

I wonder if the DR. of Divinity was earned as in 8 years of college, or honorary or mail order??

THAT would be the true test of an earned title!

[CC1]

Originally Posted by Strongminded

I wonder if the DR. of Divinity was earned as in 8 years of college, or honorary or mail order??

THAT would be the true test of an earned title!

I agree. That blows both ways though. There are beloved so called "theologians" and "Greek experts" on the conservative side whose credentials are mail order at best.

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by bishoph

Bishop W.G. Rowe was the founder. This is the first that I have heard of him supporting the "Adam" doctrine. His Father actually was a proponent of the Serpent Seed doctrine and as a result his sons were blackballed even though they vehemently denied belief in said doctrine.

G. B. Rowe taught the Adam doctrine and so did his sons and the church TODAY teaches it. I was at a AWCF meeting at Louisville years ago and G. D. Peters was up saying that Worthy Rowe did not believe the Adam doctrine but Rowe was not saying nothing. On my way out I stopped by their table from their church and lo and behold there was a booklet teaching the Adam doctrine right there in the meeting. The Rowes did not believe the Serpent Seed. They taught and teach 2 in the Godhead. I have 2 greatgrandsons in the church where I pastor. So I do know what I am talking about.

[stmatthew]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

G. B. Rowe taught the Adam doctrine and so did his sons and the church TODAY teaches it. I was at a AWCF meeting at Louisville years ago and G. D. Peters was up saying that Worthy Rowe did not believe the Adam doctrine but Rowe was not saying nothing. On my way out I stopped by their table from their church and lo and behold there was a booklet teaching the Adam doctrine right there in the meeting. The Rowes did not believe the Serpent Seed. They taught and teach 2 in the Godhead. I have 2 greatgrandsons in the church where I pastor. So I do know what I am talking about.

Elder,

You really should get someone to sit down and right all your knowledge of history down into book form, and publish it. I believe I said this same thing to Bro Wilkins. And if I haven't said it, Bro Bishop1 should as well.

The history you men have of Pentecost will be lost one day if none of you make the effort to pass it on. I would make a History section here on AFF for you 3 to post it all out if you would do it.

Along with you 3, Sam, and a few others could make for some great stories of the history of "Pennycost".

[Steve Epley]

Bishop Rowe was a protege of Haywood-Tobin a Bishop in the PAW for years and in the UPC in the early years. But in the early 50's he got off into this teaching. The late R.C. Cavaness said he was one of the greatest teachers he ever heard. Back then at Midway they had over a 1,000 folks. It was sad he died broken he felt he would pull a large number out but he did not althoug he affected a few like Bishop Hancock of Detroit. Bishop Little who was the original secretary of the AWCF was out of Hancock's church I asked him on the platform of Melvin's Boyd's church at Nashville if he was Oneness he went around the barn several times and never answered. This movement is a joke it is an umbrella for:
Adam doctrine
Spiritual Communion doctrine
Divine Flesh doctrine
that was founded by a man who taught 2 in the Godhead and the secretary believed the same!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!

[SDG]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Bishop Rowe was a protege of Haywood-Tobin a Bishop in the PAW for years and in the UPC in the early years. But in the early 50's he got off into this teaching. The late R.C. Cavaness said he was one of the greatest teachers he ever heard. Back then at Midway they had over a 1,000 folks. It was sad he died broken he felt he would pull a large number out but he did not althoug he affected a few like Bishop Hancock of Detroit. Bishop Little who was the original secretary of the AWCF was out of Hancock's church I asked him on the platform of Melvin's Boyd's church at Nashville if he was Oneness he went around the barn several times and never answered. This movement is a joke it is an umbrella for:
Adam doctrine
Spiritual Communion doctrine
Divine Flesh doctrine
that was founded by a man who taught 2 in the Godhead and the secretary believed the same!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!

Very close to ministry bashing.

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Very close to ministry bashing.

I am NOT talking about any particular minister with the exception of the Rowes and stating what they believe.
THE ABC brethren (Spiritual Communion) are part of the group one was an official. Now with TEKE????
They don't care what you believe.
Apostolic and have men believing in 2 in the Godhead?
Phillips and company should have checked closer is all I can say.

Originally Posted by CC1

I agree. That blows both ways though. There are beloved so called "theologians" and "Greek experts" on the conservative side whose credentials are mail order at best.

From what I know no one has ever been able to substantiate that Hutchins degree is legit. The school has no link on the web other than back to his own website.

[Sam]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Bishop Rowe was a protege of Haywood-Tobin a Bishop in the PAW for years and in the UPC in the early years. But in the early 50's he got off into this teaching. The late R.C. Cavaness said he was one of the greatest teachers he ever heard. Back then at Midway they had over a 1,000 folks. It was sad he died broken he felt he would pull a large number out but he did not althoug he affected a few like Bishop Hancock of Detroit. Bishop Little who was the original secretary of the AWCF was out of Hancock's church I asked him on the platform of Melvin's Boyd's church at Nashville if he was Oneness he went around the barn several times and never answered. This movement is a joke it is an umbrella for:
Adam doctrine
Spiritual Communion doctrine
Divine Flesh doctrine
that was founded by a man who taught 2 in the Godhead and the secretary believed the same!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!

I'm not sure what you are referring to as the "Adam Doctrine."
Didn't Bishop Rowe teach that Jesus was born human, became God at His baptism when the Spirit descended like a dove, and then ceased to be God as He hung on the cross just before He cried out, "My God, My God, why hast Thou forsaken me?"
Didn't Bishop S.C. Johnson (or Johnston) believe that also about Jesus?

Elder Epley,
like someone else has said, you need to get some of your historical knowledge out of your head and into a book so it can be preserved for posterity. Knowing you, you would "tell it like it is" and not try to be politically correct.

Maybe you could do it by writing a series on Apostolic/Pentecostal history and have it published as an ongoing series in the Apostolic Compass or Apostolic Standard.