Modesty vs Holiness

[RevDWW]

Originally Posted by Newman

ok... You showed us that some of the choices made by Jesus are not applicable to the lives we deal with. My point exactly. Thank you.

An interesting point about vanity perhaps being at the root of coveting. Great food for thought.

Which leads to the next point. Why are we so concerned about our neighbor's vanity while leaving our own alone? Humans have always expressed their individuality one way or another. Why then is vanity only ok when it is done the way I do it?

The irony is that in the end; modesty can of itself become a point of vanity.

Aren't Jesus' examples always applicable, instead of a donkey maybe I'd borrow a '73 AMC Gremlin to go work a bus route........... there would be absolutely no pride in that......

The concern can probably be trace to one of three schools of thoughts.....1)How come they can do that when I can't? 2)I'm so good they must need me to lead them 3)I care about my fellow man so I'll try and help them out so they don't have to go through what I've gone through........
Vanity can be a matter of perspective...like the beam and the mote.......

Modesty becoming vanity.......the ole "proud that I'm so humble" paradox..............

.......Love does not seek it's own, is not puffed up.......

Originally Posted by RevDWW

Aren't Jesus' examples always applicable, instead of a donkey maybe I'd borrow a '73 AMC Gremlin to go work a bus route........... there would be absolutely no pride in that......

The concern can probably be trace to one of three schools of thoughts.....1)How come they can do that when I can't? 2)I'm so good they must need me to lead them 3)I care about my fellow man so I'll try and help them out so they don't have to go through what I've gone through........
Vanity can be a matter of perspective...like the beam and the mote.......

Modesty becoming vanity.......the ole "proud that I'm so humble" paradox..............

.......Love does not seek it's own, is not puffed up.......

RevDWW,

You need to petition the General Board for permission to preach this on point message at General Conference!

The altars should be full!

[RevDWW]

Originally Posted by philjones

RevDWW,

You need to petition the General Board for permission to preach this on point message at General Conference!

The altars should be full!

There's no need to mock me PJ!!!

[Esther]

Originally Posted by Newman

Esther- The idea that modesty equals holiness is probably related to the Catholic Church and some of the leaders a few hundred years after Christ who viewed women as temptations of satan; and consequently equated holiness with being covered up. Think of the kind of clothing nuns used to wear.

Interesting!


Some groups even went so far as to equate lack of bathing with holiness (less temptation). Other groups were distraught at the idea that one might wear colored clothing. After all, if God wanted us to have purple robes, he would have made purple sheep.

I am so glad that has passed!


So modesty equals holiness has been with us a long time and seems to taken foothold about the same time the Catholic Church began keeping Scripture from lay people. Imagine that.

Interesting thoughts here.

[Esther]

Originally Posted by stmatthew

Modesty is a result of holiness in ones life.

True!

[Esther]

Originally Posted by RevDWW

I wonder way most major corporations have dress codes that seem to stress modesty?

Isn't it for there protection?

Don't take me wrong, I've been raised in Pentecost, and have seen some that look "the part" on the outside but were rotten to the core.

We need to stress doing what we do out of Love for Jesus, rather than just conformity to guidelines. We need to stress listening to the Holy Ghost speak in that still small voice, rather than listening to the screech of the world or the lament of the self-righteous.

Seriously, I need to be asking the Lord to give me personal convictions, not corporate ones, give me maturity to manage modernization, rather than just doing the new thing because it's the new thing, make me accountable to my neighbor over just counting blessings, give me grace enough not to force my liberty on others or to feel threatened by theirs, and keep me from losing the beauty of holiness by conforming to the ugliness of the world.

Great thoughts here.

[Esther]

Originally Posted by pelathais

I agree with stmatthew's angle. First we make ourselves holy by deciding that our lives, including our bodies, will be "set apart" or consecrated for an exclusive purpose. As a part of this consecration or separation we will look to fulfill the NT's teachings about how to serve God. This includes instructions for modesty.

So "holiness" first (as an inward decision) and then the outward expressions: modesty, conversation, conduct, and etc.

Too often this is overlooked.

And "modesty" isn't just "covering up." It's the overall way in which we display and adorn ourselves. A $5,000 gown with inlaid jewels wouldn't be considered "modest" even if it covered you like a burka.

To a billionaire $5,000.00 may be a modest sum. To ME, Lord I would stroke! lol

[Esther]

Originally Posted by RevDWW

It's not the make and model, but how He would go about choosing. He probably would just borrow a car, like borrowing a donkey for His triumphant entry.
He didn't need to take accounting, that's why he had Judas and Matthis.
Probably not, His was to be a Spiritual linage, not a physical one.

Could it be that vanity is a main ingredant in coveting?

Why do you get worked up about vanity?

Vanity and pride are soul killers.

Just wanted to remind you He borrowed a tomb also.

[Felicity]

Originally Posted by JTULLOCK

Here comes the pitch, and it is a high drive deep into left field and it is outta here a homerun by RevDWW!

His batting average is real good!

[Felicity]

Modesty is just one proof of holiness.

But then what is modest? What I consider modest someone else would disagree with. It's a fairly subjective term although I think that even unbelievers know the difference between immodesty and modesty.