Christmas is not pagan

[coksiw]

Originally Posted by Originalist

Does the Bible condemn it? No. Is it a "transgression of the Law"? No.

Jesus DID partake in a feast that was NOT ordained in the Law of Moses.

BTW, why aren't you answering questions posed to yu in the Divorce and Remarriage thread?

Adding thanksgiving feast doesn’t appear to be a problem (e.g. see Purim).
Inventing or removing covenant feast is another story (see the sin of Jeroboam).

Was Jesus in a invented covenant feast or in an thanksgiving celebration feast?
Is Christmas a thanksgiving feast or pretends to be a covenant feast?

[shag]

Col. 2:16


Here’s my cartridge in a bare tree.

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by seguidordejesus

So not one tiny thing you agreed with in the article? Or just "I don't like chicken" and kind of skimmed over it?

I read the article. I found it mostly full of the typical canards.

Listen, the author of the article has an a priori commitment to celebrating the Mass of Christ, because he is orthodox, and a priest in that tradition. He therefore is not going to follow the facts to reach an independent conclusion. He is going to reach a conclusion, then look for whatever facts he can to support it, hence petitio principii, or begging the question, which is a logical fallacy.

I don't truck with that kind of thinking.

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by Originalist

Does it even matter? The point is, there is nothing inherently wrong or evil about the day December 25. Therefore, it is as good a day as any to celebrate the birth of Messiah.

It mattered enough for you to make a thread about it. It matters enough that those who celebrate the Mass of Christ on December 25 clearly want to do so with a clean conscience, hence their ardent defense that the day and celebration isn't pagan.

So, this looks like a back-peddle due to the fact the position you attempted to articulate has been sunk.

And, as far as December 25th being as good as any, then why not celebrate, in all the Christmas traditions you embrace, on October 31st?

That day is as a good as any. Or, you could celebrate on July 19th, the traditional date of Hare Krishna's birth.

But, if you wanted to nail down the best time to celebrate Christ's birth, I personally recommend Rosh Hashana:

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by Originalist

Does the Bible condemn it? No. Is it a "transgression of the Law"? No.

Argumentum Ex Silentio.

The Bible cannot condemn as a transgression of the Torah what it does not address or speak to, since Christmas as a holy day didn't come into being centuries after the last text of the Holy Scriptures was penned.

So, just because you cannot find a commandment proscribing it, does not mean the Holy Scriptures permit a self-written prescription for it,

Jesus DID partake in a feast that was NOT ordained in the Law of Moses.

There is no evidence of that. I assume you refer to the mention of the "Feast of Dedication" in John 10:22?

All that verse tells us is a timestamp of what point of the Jewish Calendar it was, and that Jesus was in the Temple, in the Colonnade of Solomon. It says nothing about Jesus celebrating anything, one way or the other.

John 10:22 (ESV),

22 At that time the Feast of Dedication took place at Jerusalem. It was winter, 23 and Jesus was walking in the temple, in the colonnade of Solomon.

Now, if you're not referring to John 10:22, then please enlighten us, Brother, as to which feast the Lord Jesus celebrated that isn't found in the Torah.

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by coksiw

Adding thanksgiving feast doesn’t appear to be a problem (e.g. see Purim).
Inventing or removing covenant feast is another story (see the sin of Jeroboam).

Was Jesus in a invented covenant feast or in an thanksgiving celebration feast?
Is Christmas a thanksgiving feast or pretends to be a covenant feast?

I think you are overanalyzing this. Does it in any way violate the Law of God to glorify his Son, and celebrate his birth on a particular day? It's that simple

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

Argumentum Ex Silentio.

The Bible cannot condemn as a transgression of the Torah what it does not address or speak to, since Christmas as a holy day didn't come into being centuries after the last text of the Holy Scriptures was penned.

So, just because you cannot find a commandment proscribing it, does not mean the Holy Scriptures permit a self-written prescription for it,



There is no evidence of that. I assume you refer to the mention of the "Feast of Dedication" in John 10:22?

All that verse tells us is a timestamp of what point of the Jewish Calendar it was, and that Jesus was in the Temple, in the Colonnade of Solomon. It says nothing about Jesus celebrating anything, one way or the other.

John 10:22 (ESV),



Now, if you're not referring to John 10:22, then please enlighten us, Brother, as to which feast the Lord Jesus celebrated that isn't found in the Torah.

His family was in Jerusalem that day. It is evident they were there for that purpose. Let me ask you, were they wrong fr doing so?

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

It mattered enough for you to make a thread about it. It matters enough that those who celebrate the Mass of Christ on December 25 clearly want to do so with a clean conscience, hence their ardent defense that the day and celebration isn't pagan.

So, this looks like a back-peddle due to the fact the position you attempted to articulate has been sunk.

And, as far as December 25th being as good as any, then why not celebrate, in all the Christmas traditions you embrace, on October 31st?

That day is as a good as any. Or, you could celebrate on July 19th, the traditional date of Hare Krishna's birth.

But, if you wanted to nail down the best time to celebrate Christ's birth, I personally recommend Rosh Hashana:

I did not back peddle. You simply missed the point of the thread. The point is, there is nothing "pagan" about celebrating Christ coming into this world on December 25, October 31, or any other day one wishes. As for the actual "Christmas" day brought about by post-Apostolic church leaders, there was nothing "pagan" about that either, though I disagree with some things they taught, obviously.

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

I read the article. I found it mostly full of the typical canards.

Listen, the author of the article has an a priori commitment to celebrating the Mass of Christ, because he is orthodox, and a priest in that tradition. He therefore is not going to follow the facts to reach an independent conclusion. He is going to reach a conclusion, then look for whatever facts he can to support it, hence petitio principii, or begging the question, which is a logical fallacy.

I don't truck with that kind of thinking.

But I noticed you really did not deal with his points on substance

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by Originalist

I think you are overanalyzing this. Does it in any way violate the Law of God to glorify his Son, and celebrate his birth on a particular day? It's that simple

It is not that simple. You are choosing a specific day for a specific purpose for a specific reason, none of which actually has anything to do with the day Jesus was born. Did you read Evangelist Benincasa's reply to you?

December 25th does not stand in isolation. It is one of many other feasts of the Catholic and Orthodox churches. It is based on Tertullian's assumption, false as it may be, that Jesus died on March 25th, and from that, the idea that Jesus was conceived in His mother's womb on that same date. Do you celebrate the Feast of the Anunciation?

If not, why not? Because you really ought not to be making use of December 25th for Christ's birth, if you don't also celebrate March 25th as the date of His conception.

Or, have you converted to Catholicism or Orthodoxy?