Pentematic

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Jito463

Every pastor I've ever had only mandated standards for people on the platform.

I cant say the same. Where I attend now its for the platform.

The platform standard as I understand it as meant for an example to others. So its a way of showing people what they think is right and wrong.

[Michael The Disciple]

But personally I would not want to be called "Pentematic".

I used to like Charismatic/Pentecostal.

[Tithesmeister]

Originally Posted by Bro Flame

Nice misinterpretation of what I was trying to say. I'll try to clarify any confusion.

Holiness is a necessity for salvation. The Bible is clear that without holiness none of us shall see Jesus. He is holiness. How do we expect to see holiness without holiness? It ain't happening.

I do believe that holiness is an inward and outward experience. There is Bible to support inner holiness and also scripture to support outer modesty and sobriety. We are commanded to sustain from the very appearance of evil and worldliness. God isn't pleased with that lifestyle.

I once heard someone say that if holiness, in general, consists of inner and outer restrictions and cleansing, then we need to stop distinguishing "inner" and "outer" holiness. Well, that sounds good in theory, but it isn't quite that simple. So many churches today preach about inner, but neglect the outer. Likewise, there are just as many churches that place strong emphasis on the outer, but never touch the inner.

It takes both. Genuine holiness will reflect in all aspects of a Christian's life.

Someone earlier in the comments asked how my church teaches holiness. I'll give you all a rundown on it as quickly as I possibly can. Our pastors never preach sleeve length, hair length, dress length, or anything like that. Our churches hold a high standard of outward modesty, but I must tell you that there is a lot of preaching on having our inward man cleaned up and aligned with the Bible. There's many a message that triggers in my mind on how our "standards" do not save us. If we adhere to "standards" and still have a nasty inner man, then God is not pleased.

What say you?

To whom is this directed?

I certainly don’t wish to misinterpret, even in a nice way. Could you be more specific?

Who misinterpreted? And in what way?

Inquiring minds wanna know.

[Bro Flame]

Originally Posted by Esaias

There was no misrepresentation.

Regarding how your church teaches holiness, I will repeat my question: does your church teach outward holiness is something that a person, over time, conforms to more and more, but total conformity is nevertheless impossible in this life?

Does your church teach and preach entire sanctification as obtainable in this life prior to physical death?

There seemed to have been a little misunderstanding somewhere.

Does my church teach that "outward holiness" is something a Christian adheres more to overtime? Well, yes and no. There is some things that people in our congregation typically get stricter on overtime, but there really is only so much one can do with their outer appearance.

No my church does not teach entire sanctification as obtainable in this life. We strive for perfection continuously.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Bro Flame

There seemed to have been a little misunderstanding somewhere.

Does my church teach that "outward holiness" is something a Christian adheres more to overtime? Well, yes and no. There is some things that people in our congregation typically get stricter on overtime, but there really is only so much one can do with their outer appearance.

No my church does not teach entire sanctification as obtainable in this life. We strive for perfection continuously.

Striving for something that is not possible?

What does the Bible say?

1 Thess 5:23-24

23And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 24Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.

This is the disaster modern day Preachers have caused. Assuring saints they cannot be holy (sanctified) yet waste several hours a week preaching holiness.

People believe they cannot be truly holy so they dont put forth faith that attains. They accept the word of men above the word of Jesus.

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Striving for something that is not possible?

What does the Bible say?

1 Thess 5:23-24

23And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 24Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.

This is the disaster modern day Preachers have caused. Assuring saints they cannot be holy (sanctified) yet waste several hours a week preaching holiness.

People believe they cannot be truly holy so they dont put forth faith that attains. They accept the word of men above the word of Jesus.

Our holiness is centered on Christ and his cross.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Originalist

Our holiness is centered on Christ and his cross.

Good evangelical teaching!

[james34]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Everyone has standards. 99.99999% cannot agree on what those standards should be.

This is my point.
And after this it’s a matter of whose opinion is most important. Having said this , I do think God cares. But what is happening in most Apostolic churches isn’t modesty.

When think standards , it’s from the perspective that the flesh is enemy number one. Having recognized my enemy , I purposely seek to cover him up with Godliness and modesty , both in actions and dress.
The glory of the flesh ( as we see in the demon possessed) is to reveal/manifest the flesh. The obvious repentant heart ( at least biblically) seeks to clothe the flesh, particularly in cases where it was naked. There seems to be an obvious gravitation towards modesty by the repentant.

[Tithesmeister]

Originally Posted by james34

This is my point.
And after this it’s a matter of whose opinion is most important. Having said this , I do think God cares. But what is happening in most Apostolic churches isn’t modesty.

When think standards , it’s from the perspective that the flesh is enemy number one. Having recognized my enemy , I purposely seek to cover him up with Godliness and modesty , both in actions and dress.
The glory of the flesh ( as we see in the demon possessed) is to reveal/manifest the flesh. The obvious repentant heart ( at least biblically) seeks to clothe the flesh, particularly in cases where it was naked. There seems to be an obvious gravitation towards modesty by the repentant.

I dress more modestly than most, and probably less modestly than a few. But if you read the scriptures, it seems that being naked was shameful, but it is not considered a holiness issue to the extent that Apostolic churches do. It seems to be portrayed as a poverty issue more than a holiness issue.

There is one exception.

When the priests served, they were instructed to wear breeches that covered their nakedness from the loins to the thigh.

Exod.28

[42] And thou shalt make them linen breeches to cover their nakedness; from the loins even unto the thighs they shall reach:

It seems that this is a lower bar than your typical Apostolic preacher preaches as a standard. While there is certainly nothing wrong with having a higher standard (or would it be a lower standard being BELOW the knee) it is significant that God set the standard at the thigh. I’m not eager to pretend that I have a better idea.

Maybe there’s something that I’m misinterpreting in this passage. It does seem to me at any rate that we are much more preoccupied with our bodies than they were in the Bible. But I will continue to dress modestly. Out of respect for myself and in consideration of others.

[james34]

The thing that makes it most obvious that we need dress standards is when people fight against it.
A man wearing women’s clothing was an abomination. I don’t see any denomination where men wear dresses. So don’t pretend you don’t believe in standards, it’s your standard of honesty that’s lacking. Clothed and in their right mind!