Demons and the believer

[1ofthechosen]

Originally Posted by Esaias

At this point you have resorted to simply restating your claim. That's called "argumentum ad nauseum" and is a logical fallacy. Mere repetition of your claim doesn't establish your claim as true. You need to bring forward the Bible statements that teach 1)there are fallen angels in the sense you understand that term to mean, 2)the prince of Persia is in fact one of these fallen angels, 3)that fallen angels can withstand in physical (for lack of a better word) confrontation with angels for any length of time, 4)that angels like Gabriel are inferior in power to some unnamed fallen angel and thus require help from an archangel in some kind of disembodied wrestling match. That would be for starters.

The burden of proof is on you.

1.But here Revelation 12:3-4 "And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. [4] And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born." Stars represent angels throughout the book of Revelation. 1/3 fell by following the Great Dragon Lucifer. (See Isaiah 14:12-14, Ezekial 28:13-15, Luke 10:18-20)

2.Ephesians 6:12 "For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places." You can try to explain this away as human Government but what comes right after it in verse 16 "above all, taking the shield of faith with which you will be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked one." The armor of God is not for fighting Governmental forces, but it says in the scripture it's for fighting the "wicked one".

3. Jude 1:9 "Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee." And Revelation 12:7-8 "And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, [8] And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven." That's why it took Michael because Gabriel is just a messenger angel, it took the warrior angel just like in this case with Prince of Persia.

4. That's why it took Michael mentioned in the above case. Just as in the passage in Daniel 10:13.

[1ofthechosen]

Originally Posted by Esaias

He would easily have withstood an angel if this was not a physical contest, which I think the Bible shows that some heathen engaged in a physical contest with an angel would be DISASTROUS for the human, rather quickly (see the 180,000 Syrians killed in one night by one unnamed angel). If Gabriel was influencing Cyrus and his court then it is easy to see how difficult the matter might be, how easily Cyrus would have withstood the angel.

Just as humans resist Almighty God all the time, every day of the week.

But it was a physical contest i.e. the reference of Michael shows that. This was not a man's will fighting against God. Otherwise what was the purpose of Michael the warrior angel in the case. Can you show that?

[1ofthechosen]

Originally Posted by Esaias

In addition, since angels are almost always mistaken for humans, it is entirely possible that Gabriel was an angelic being who was also in fact a member of Cyrus' imperial court, serving as an advisor. Michael may also have appeared in such a fashion.

I hope you don't mean that. Because "it is entirely possible" , and "may have " are the right words for you to use. Because that is all hypothetical..

[berkeley]

Good points, Esaias.

[1ness]

Originally Posted by Amanah

A kind of related thought. My Sister won't let anyone lay hands on her, unless she requests them to. She thinks that if their spirit is not right, they will impart whatever isn't right to her.

I am not trying to hijack this thread but I felt the need to chime in on this post by the sister here, and I don't want to make a new thread about it.

I used to fellowship this church and I would go to the front during the altar call and there would always be these same brothers who would lay hands on me. I would go to the front to be obedient to the minister because he would request people to come. I would go and be there trying to commune with the Lord, then the same brothers would lay hands on me and most of the time it was actually distracting me from communing with God. It got to the point where I didn't want to go to the front, and would prefer to pray in my seat.

Am I the only one who feels like this sometimes? I agree with the sister in that I too feel that someone can impart some sort of spirit on you if you let them lay hands on you. Like this boy here who looks like he got a spirit from the Pope.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by 1ness

I am not trying to hijack this thread but I felt the need to chime in on this post by the sister here, and I don't want to make a new thread about it.

I used to fellowship this church and I would go to the front during the altar call and there would always be these same brothers who would lay hands on me. I would go to the front to be obedient to the minister because he would request people to come. I would go and be there trying to commune with the Lord, then the same brothers would lay hands on me and most of the time it was actually distracting me from communing with God. It got to the point where I didn't want to go to the front, and would prefer to pray in my seat.

Am I the only one who feels like this sometimes? I agree with the sister in that I too feel that someone can impart some sort of spirit on you if you let them lay hands on you. Like this boy here who looks like he got a spirit from the Pope.

I have been prayed for and had individuals whisper their prophesy to me. Somethings on target. Somethings creepy. Somethings so far off in left field it was hysterical. Anyway, at meetings I have had people lay hands on me and pray. Out around the city I’ve had people stop by the Bible study and pray. Are they imparting spirits? Well, greater is He that is in us, than he that is in the world. Also I need the prayer, and they need the practice.

[Amanah]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

I have been prayed for and had individuals whisper their prophesy to me. Somethings on target. Somethings creepy. Somethings so far off in left field it was hysterical. Anyway, at meetings I have had people lay hands on me and pray. Out around the city I’ve had people stop by the Bible study and pray. Are they imparting spirits? Well, greater is He that is in us, than he that is in the world. Also I need the prayer, and they need the practice.

I think you are right

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Since we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against powers and principalities, and since the weapons of our warfare are designed to bring every thought to the obedience of Christ while tearing down every imagination and disobedient thought, etc, it follows that our wrestling against powers and principalities has to do with ideological conflict between the Kingdom of God and the kingdoms of unregenerate man. See Daniel 2 for a bird's eye view of that conflict in prophecy.

How did you get this so wrong? 'we wrestle not against flesh and blood' meaning 'human beings'. Our fight isn't with humans but against spiritual powers of darkness, ie: devils/demons/fallen angels who fight against our minds with deceitful lies and lusts.
This dark spiritual army is organized into a hierarchy. They also influence governmental leaders to do their bidding. Our war is not against human beings in any format. We are to LOVE them and lead them to the side of light.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by 1ness

I am not trying to hijack this thread but I felt the need to chime in on this post by the sister here, and I don't want to make a new thread about it.

I used to fellowship this church and I would go to the front during the altar call and there would always be these same brothers who would lay hands on me. I would go to the front to be obedient to the minister because he would request people to come. I would go and be there trying to commune with the Lord, then the same brothers would lay hands on me and most of the time it was actually distracting me from communing with God. It got to the point where I didn't want to go to the front, and would prefer to pray in my seat.

Am I the only one who feels like this sometimes? I agree with the sister in that I too feel that someone can impart some sort of spirit on you if you let them lay hands on you. Like this boy here who looks like he got a spirit from the Pope.

I don't think a brother should lay hands on a woman and visa versa unless requested to.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

How did you get this so wrong? 'we wrestle not against flesh and blood' meaning 'human beings'. Our fight isn't with humans but against spiritual powers of darkness, ie: devils/demons/fallen angels who fight against our minds with deceitful lies and lusts.
This dark spiritual army is organized into a hierarchy. They also influence governmental leaders to do their bidding. Our war is not against human beings in any format. We are to LOVE them and lead them to the side of light.

Agreed.