Health Insurance

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Aquila

If anyone watched the videos posted, there are many countries that have addressed this issue in multiple ways. In the United States, the Democrats are the only ones who truly launched a significant attempt at reforming the health insurance system itself. Now, depending on how that reform effected a person, or their family, opinions on its worthiness will differ. The Republicans haven't really come up with a plan to reform the insurance system at all. They have pushed for various smaller, supplemental, approaches that have served as a band aide on the problem.

What I see in other countries is that their citizens demanded sound, economically feasible, reforms. In almost every case, there was a serious, overwhelming, need, and a serious overwhelming desire on the part of the people demanding change. In America, we the people complain a lot... but we aren't demanding change. To satisfy the electorate, each party fields their approaches, each with it's own problems, just to secure votes on election day. Not to mention, each party has corporate "special interests" that pull on the purse strings of elected officials to keep things as close to the way things are currently... because these various interests are banking big profits off of the sick.

We will see change when the American people are united and demanding change. Think about this... on 9/11 terrorists killed roughly 3,000 Americans. In the wake of that horrible event, the nation was united. It didn't matter if you were conservative, liberal, libertarian, black, white, male, female, gay, straight, or in between. We were a united people demanding that our elected officials address the act of war perpetrated upon us. I remember seeing Congress on the steps of the Capital Building united in resolve. The White House was tender, knowing our pain, but strong and determined. President George Bush, standing in the rubble of the WTC was addressing the crowd, and a firefighter yelled, "George, we can't hear you!" To this, the President responded with the immortal words,

“I can hear you! The rest of the world hears you! And the people – and the people who knocked these buildings down will hear all of us soon."

Now, you might be asking, "What does this have to do with our nation's health care crisis?"

It's a matter of perspective. As I said, on 9/11 roughly 3,000 Americans were killed by terrorists, and we stood united, determined to address the threat. Yet, in America prior to the ACA, we saw a yearly average of 45,000 Americans suffering and dying from treatable conditions... only because they didn't have the insurance, the coverage, and/or the money to have access to the treatments, medications, or specialists they needed. And not all of them were "poor". Many were hard working Americans who just couldn't afford insurance. Many self-employed. And yet, the American people have failed to take in the true humanity of that reality. Imagine if terrorists set off a WMD, killing 45,000 Americans. If losing 3,000 on 9/11 could unite us in the call an determination to address a threat... what should unnecessarily losing 45,000 Americans do to our unity and resolve on an issue? We're not really taking in the reality of what we're facing when it comes to health care. And frankly, much of the civilized world is shocked that we're ignoring the problem year after year, election after election. If terrorists killed 45,000 a year and our politicians did nothing, we'd be marching in the streets, protesting, there might even be violence in the streets as the people rejected the absolute failure of leadership to address the threat. Now, nobody expects that kind of revolutionary protest on healthcare. But, it's going to take a similar level of resolve and demand for change. It's going to take waking up to the reality of our healthcare crisis, the needless loss of humanity, and it's going to take a groundswell of outcry. Then real reform will be possible. The American people became outraged at children being separated from their parents by immigration officials and united in their condemnation... and those policies changed within days. It's going to take some outrage concerning our healthcare crisis on the grassroots level to bring real change.

When it comes to the healthcare crisis, it's easy to put it on the back burner when you're healthy and feeling great. But when you, or someone you dearly love, is sick and lacking the ability to pay for much needed treatments and/or procedures, the emotional pain and fear is beyond words. The trapped and hopeless feeling can be overwhelming. And in many cases, the most you can do is hold their hand, and make them comfortable while you pray for a miracle. Sadly, thousands don't get that miracle.

But here's the truth we ignore... we're all human. We're all aging. We're all going to get sick one day. Every last one of us, if we live long enough, will hear a doctor tell us that we have some strange condition we've never heard of, or worse yet, one we have. Let that sink in for a moment. Everyone reading this post will one day hear their doctor tell them, "It's cancer.", or, "It's MS.", or, "It's coronary artery disease." We live in a dream, an illusion, as though we'll live forever, and that good intentions will keep disease at bay. Oh, intellectually we know this isn't true. But the reality of the day when we will hear words we wished we never heard is largely ignored... until it happens to us personally.

So, the problem isn't in Washington. The problem is on Main St. America. We're not contemplating the reality and the cost of the problem. The American people are more interested in who is on, Dancing With the Stars, than they are who is being sent home with pain meds to slowly die...in the shadows of a healthcare system in one of the richest nations on earth.

I'm convinced that when we as a people become outraged enough there will be real change. And, I'm convinced we'll not only push for a similar system like one found in other countries... but we'll rise to the occasion as we Americans always do... and our system will be better than all of their systems combined. But we have to wake up and admit that we have a problem with our current system. We have to admit that it isn't working. We have to admit that we've failed on this front. This isn't "America bashing", this is actually patriotism. Because no problem can be fixed if we deny it exists. I'm so pro-America, I know we can fix it. But waking enough Americans up to the reality of the problem is the challenge. America will have to address this issue sooner or later. And the longer we wait, the more expensive the solution will be. But, we'll rise to the occasion. Whenever the America people awaken from their slumber... we show the world how it is done.

Now, as spiritual leaders, elders and churches would do well to advocate for the sick. But all too often today they'd rather avoid this topic because as stated in the beginning of this post, it is typically the liberals leading the way on any effort to reform healthcare. I think it would help if we realize that healthcare isn't a liberal or conservative issue. Both conservatives and liberals get sick. Both sides have loved ones who get sick. It's not a left or right issue. It's about ensuring that every citizen have access to the care they need when faced with sickness, injury, or disease. Sadly, the one issue that shouldn't be partisan has been made a major partisan issue.

So, I believe in the American people. I just don't believe enough folks have awakened to the seriousness of the issue yet. But when we do... we'll see the changes we desire to see.

What we will see is a bloody civil war in this country the likes of which will make the last one seem like a walk in the park. You and your fellow travellers will keep pushing and pushing and pushing until the Ceausescu Effect kicks in. And you guys will have no choice but to pull a Pol Pot. Which is interesting, because your people are already tweeting and writing columns in major mainstream newspapers pushing for exactly that. The bad news is, this ain't Cambodia, and you snowflake types can't hardly handle online discourse let alone the hard rain that's a comin'.

[Amanah]

Originally Posted by Aquila

If anyone watched the videos posted.

Sorry, I have not had the time to watch them, although I am interested to see what other countries are doing.

The thing that I see happening right now is that middle class people who I know, who have worked all their lives, are falling out of the middle class and not being able to afford health insurance. My Sister being one of them.

My Sister has a BA in Education and a Master's degree in HR. The only work she has been able to get is a $12/hr job (Insurance collections) with Insurance that had such a high deductible that it seemed pointless, or a $15/hr job (assembly) doing contract work with no benefits and no guarantee of being hired as a permanent employee.

She is foregoing insurance, even though she has high blood pressure and a few other minor issues.

[Aquila]

More and more Americans, even conservatives, are being forced to admit that single payer health insurance is the way to go. Here are some excellent articles to consider on this topic.

The Conservative Case for Universal Healthcare
https://www.theamericanconservative....al-healthcare/

A conservative case for single-payer health care
http://theweek.com/articles/695767/c...er-health-care

The conservative case for single payer
http://www.pnhp.org/gop

Richard Master and the Conservative Case for Single Payer
https://www.corporatecrimereporter.c...-single-payer/

Private health insurance is too expensive for individuals. It is becoming far too expensive for employers. It's becoming a drag on the economy and on the profit margins of most American businesses. The simplicity of having everyone pay into a single payer system, allowing the government to negotiate costs, and expanding Medicare to cover all would break the shackles on the engine of American capitalism.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Amanah

Sorry, I have not had the time to watch them, although I am interested to see what other countries are doing.

The thing that I see happening right now is that middle class people who I know, who have worked all their lives, are falling out of the middle class and not being able to afford health insurance. My Sister being one of them.

My Sister has a BA in Education and a Master's degree in HR. The only work she has been able to get is a $12/hr job (Insurance collections) with Insurance that had such a high deductible that it seemed pointless, or a $15/hr job (assembly) doing contract work with no benefits and no guarantee of being hired as a permanent employee.

She is foregoing insurance, even though she has high blood pressure and a few other minor issues.

This is quite common. She's not alone. More and more the system is becoming far too expensive for the average hard working American to afford. And, an interesting study is to look into the business side of it. It's becoming far too expensive for employers and companies to provide for their employees. The system we have now is becoming more and more unaffordable for the average American... and is becoming a huge drain on American capitalism.

I've ranted about this since 2007. And most have mocked me, laughed at me, called me "communist", etc.... but as the years pass... more and more people are experiencing the hardships I've warned about. And more and more people are actually looking into it and finding that single payer (Medicare for all) isn't the monster the likes of Infowars would have us believe. There was a time when a system integrating private insurance with expanded Medicare would have worked. But now private insurance has become too expensive altogether. The only real solution at this point is increasingly becoming single payer. When my friends and family in Canada told me how much extra in taxes that they pay, I was floored. But then they reminded me that they don't have $700 to $800 a month premiums. They don't have co-pays. They don't have high prescription drug costs. In the end, even with the taxes they pay, on average they walk away with an extra $400 a month in pocket. This increases their buying power, ability to save, and stimulates their local economies. So, in the end, the average middle class Canadian is more financially secure than the average middle class American.

I've reviewed so many systems. When my mom died in 2007 because she didn't have the coverage necessary to see a specialist, I feverishly began studying what is wrong with our system, what other systems are out there, and how the bottom line would be effected for individual families, businesses, and the government. It would save money all around. And unshackling businesses from providing insurance for employees would free them up to do what they do best, focus on making money.

Here's an FAQ on the most comprehensive plan (H.R. 676) to expand Medicare for all. It answers most questions and objections about the system.

Single Payer FAQ
http://www.pnhp.org/facts/single-payer-faq

[aegsm76]

Originally Posted by Aquila

This is quite common. She's not alone. More and more the system is becoming far too expensive for the average hard working American to afford. And, an interesting study is to look into the business side of it. It's becoming far too expensive for employers and companies to provide for their employees. The system we have now is becoming more and more unaffordable for the average American... and is becoming a huge drain on American capitalism.

I've ranted about this since 2007. And most have mocked me, laughed at me, called me "communist", etc.... but as the years pass... more and more people are experiencing the hardships I've warned about. And more and more people are actually looking into it and finding that single payer (Medicare for all) isn't the monster the likes of Infowars would have us believe. There was a time when a system integrating private insurance with expanded Medicare would have worked. But now private insurance has become too expensive altogether. The only real solution at this point is increasingly becoming single payer. When my friends and family in Canada told me how much extra in taxes that they pay, I was floored. But then they reminded me that they don't have $700 to $800 a month premiums. They don't have co-pays. They don't have high prescription drug costs. In the end, even with the taxes they pay, on average they walk away with an extra $400 a month in pocket. This increases their buying power, ability to save, and stimulates their local economies. So, in the end, the average middle class Canadian is more financially secure than the average middle class American.

I've reviewed so many systems. When my mom died in 2007 because she didn't have the coverage necessary to see a specialist, I feverishly began studying what is wrong with our system, what other systems are out there, and how the bottom line would be effected for individual families, businesses, and the government. It would save money all around. And unshackling businesses from providing insurance for employees would free them up to do what they do best, focus on making money.

Here's an FAQ on the most comprehensive plan (H.R. 676) to expand Medicare for all. It answers most questions and objections about the system.

Single Payer FAQ
http://www.pnhp.org/facts/single-payer-faq

A - Since you are putting yourself out there as an "expert", I think I will take my 30+ years of experience in the industry over your study and "understanding".
And the answer is not single-payer.
That would bankrupt the American people.
The answer is a system like Germany's.
Like meaning similar to, not identical.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Esaias

What we will see is a bloody civil war in this country the likes of which will make the last one seem like a walk in the park. You and your fellow travellers will keep pushing and pushing and pushing until the Ceausescu Effect kicks in. And you guys will have no choice but to pull a Pol Pot. Which is interesting, because your people are already tweeting and writing columns in major mainstream newspapers pushing for exactly that. The bad news is, this ain't Cambodia, and you snowflake types can't hardly handle online discourse let alone the hard rain that's a comin'.

You'd do well writing for a right wing blog. But you're not offering anything but rhetoric to a growing number of sick Americans who can't afford the insurance or the care they need.

Essentially, you're full of criticism. But you have no solutions. Feel free to stand on the sidelines throwing tomatoes while more and more of us realize what needs to be done and are willing to push for it. Sad really, when one could stand and make a difference, they fall back on Infowars ideology. Oh well, you guys own that. Right now we more than pay for what is necessary for a basic single payer system. And what do we get for our money? Nothing really. It's time to demand some degree of service from the government we are giving so much money too.

I know people who have no insurance and they are content with that. They've made up their mind to just live as God would have them live and die quietly at home if He so chooses that for them. Sadly, most Americans don't think that way. They can't afford insurance, but when sick or injured, they run to the ER and rack up bills they can't pay. That equals losses passed down to consumers in higher medical costs, and that in turn increases the cost of insurance. We're already paying for everyone, we're just paying for them in the most expensive way possible.

No more free rides. Everyone needs to pay into a system and help bring down the costs for all. The only other alternative would be to handle healthcare like a business. If a person has no money or insurance to finance the cost... turn them away. Like a car lot. We can't continue to provide healthcare as though it is a social service... and not fund it like a social service.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by aegsm76

A - Since you are putting yourself out there as an "expert", I think I will take my 30+ years of experience in the industry over your study and "understanding".
And the answer is not single-payer.
That would bankrupt the American people.
The answer is a system like Germany's.
Like meaning similar to, not identical.

With what we have now, the costs of health insurance is already nearly bankrupting the average American who needs it.

I admit that Germany's system is appealing. And I think it would have worked 15-20 years ago. The costs here in the private industry have become too great. What we don't want to do is create a universal system that is only marginally cheaper than the one we have now.

With single payer... private insurers become supplemental. The focus of Medicare for all becomes a comprehensive plan for general preventative and necessary care. Single payer allows the government to negotiate costs of services, equipment, and prescription drugs with greater leverage than a system like that in Germany. Which means there is more power to reduce cost than what we see in Germany.

The one thing I think we can all agree on is that we don't want "socialized medicine". Providers should still be private. We're only talking insurance.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by aegsm76

A - Since you are putting yourself out there as an "expert", I think I will take my 30+ years of experience in the industry over your study and "understanding".
And the answer is not single-payer.
That would bankrupt the American people.
The answer is a system like Germany's.
Like meaning similar to, not identical.

I never said I was an "expert". I only said that I looked into it to a greater degree than I had prior to losing my mother. So, please don't paint me as an "expert".

[consapente89]

I know people who are members of healthcare companies like Christian Healthcare and seem to benefit from it.

I feel very fortunate. The company I work for offers Starmark and they pay very well on medical claims. We do have a $3,000 deductible but our company gives all the employees a loaded debit card each year to cover the price of the deductible. So far my wife and I have not had to pay anything out of pocket for our medical expenses.

[Amanah]

Originally Posted by consapente89

I know people who are members of healthcare companies like Christian Healthcare and seem to benefit from it.

I feel very fortunate. The company I work for offers Starmark and they pay very well on medical claims. We do have a $3,000 deductible but our company gives all the employees a loaded debit card each year to cover the price of the deductible. So far my wife and I have not had to pay anything out of pocket for our medical expenses.

We have Medishare (Christian Healthcare) here in Florida. I looked into it. It is very good with the exception of people who are looking to retire early. It is affordable for all but those who are in the 55-65 age range.