Sarah Huckabee Removed From Restaurant:

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by Aquila

I can see where it might increase Democratic voter registration.

But if amnesty is more humane in light of the police action it is taking to round up 12 million people... it doesn't really matter which party it benefits?

Are there other reasons beyond this to oppose amnesty?

As long as their legal status does not include citizenship, then I might be ok with amnesty.

[BuckeyeBukaroo]

Originally Posted by n david

The claim by the administration is that there has been law in the books since during the Clinton administration and specifically the Flores decision in 1997. Various Dems and liberal groups have pushed back against that, claiming that it 1) wasn't a law and 2) didn't require children be separated.

Strict immigration laws have been on the books for much longer, but the one in question was passed by a GOP-dominated Congress, led by Newt Gingrich and signed into law by President Bill Clinton.

Originally Posted by n david

Dems are claiming that the Trump administration made separation policy with its Zero Tolerance campaign a few months ago.

The law was passed in 1997. Presidents Clinton, Bush, and Obama were able to enforce that specific law WITHOUT separating children from their parents because the law provided other legal options for immigration officials.

People from the Obama Administration have gone on public record confirming that the wide-spread separating children from their illegal alien parents was considered for "about 5 minutes" before they concluded that it would be seen as immoral. Presidents Clinton and Bush never even considered this as a wide spread option.

Originally Posted by n david

Our borders are being invaded. Until we finally deal with that, nothing is going to work.


This is being fueled by people suffering from TDS. Hollyweird morons and the media have blown this ridiculously out of proportion. They're sharing photos of kids in cages which were taken while obama, not Trump, was the POTUS.

Only one pic being circulated is from the Obama Administration. It is common knowledge that he detained youth who illegally immigrated to America by themselves in "facilities..." that looked like cages... but apparently were not cages... because Obama would never... put kids... in cages. Right?

Originally Posted by n david

The only thing of which these people are sincere is their hatred of Trump.

There was another President who was hated for even less reasons than what this President has given people-- but the irrationality of American politics over the last 6 years or so nauseating and sad.

Originally Posted by n david

The Dems, media, hollyweird and most leftists had no problem with this happening while obama was in office. It's only now they're looking for anything and everything for which they can blame Trump and keep the nation divided.

Why do we keep comparing Obama and Trump? Does anyone else see this as odd? President Trump has been in office for over 2 years. Why the constant refs to Obama?

Separating nursing 8 month old babies from their mothers, toddlers and children from their parents, hundreds of miles away, without telling the parents where the children are going or when they will see them again, or even having a solid plan to re-connect the families is beyond immoral-- and this isn't a political party issue. This is a humanitarian crisis.

I am against amnesty. I agree with President Trump that there should not be a court process for illegal aliens. It is anti-Christian to break up families like what was happening. There is no defending that.

[n david]

Originally Posted by BuckeyeBukaroo

Why the constant refs to Obama?

Simply because the obama separated children and had children in worse living conditions than the Trump administration, yet the media and celebrities said nothing about it.

[BuckeyeBukaroo]

Originally Posted by n david

Simply because the obama separated children and had children in worse living conditions than the Trump administration, yet the media and celebrities said nothing about it.

It is public record that Obama didn't enact a policy that separated all children from their parents in all circumstances. Public record. No need to make stuff up. We don't have to like him but we shouldn't lie either.

What made Trump the bad guy is his executive order led to the widespread separating of babies, toddlers, and children from their parents a general, mandatory practice. Then both he and AG Sessions defended this cruelty on the national stage. This is also common knowledge. If Trump is wrong, he is wrong. There's no need to try to present his actions in a positive light by "what-about-isms" and trying to compare him to a man who isn't President any longer.

As for the "worse living conditions" you are the first one I have heard made that claim. Where is the documentation? I have actually read of children being forced to take certain "vitamins" (probably medicines) and I have also read where the children have been told to not to talk to media sources. And I have also read where the allegation has been made that illegal immigrant parents are being told that they would be reunited with their children if they agree to voluntarily return to their own country. How incredibly wicked is that? But you want to try to defend this feces with unproven comparisons to a man who isn't even in office any longer...

[BuckeyeBukaroo]

Originally Posted by Originalist

As long as their legal status does not include citizenship, then I might be ok with amnesty.

That's a bit cruel if you ask me. It would just be better that we deport them as we find them and LOCK DOWN OUR SOUTHERN BORDER.

[Jito463]

Originally Posted by BuckeyeBukaroo

There was another President who was hated for even less reasons than what this President has given people

Yep, and his name was George W. Bush. The left constantly tore him up one side and down the other for things that weren't even his responsibility, much less his fault (Katrina, anyone?).

Originally Posted by BuckeyeBukaroo

but the irrationality of American politics over the last 6 years or so nauseating and sad.

6 years? Try 40 years minimum. Reagan was demonized by the left while he was in office. The left has waged war on the Republican party (and conservatives) for decades now. Truth be told, the left has waged war on the Republican party since its inception over 160 years ago.

[n david]

Originally Posted by BuckeyeBukaroo

It is public record that Obama didn't enact a policy that separated all children from their parents in all circumstances. Public record. No need to make stuff up. We don't have to like him but we shouldn't lie either.

I didn't say he "enacted" the policy. But the record is clear that the obama admin did in fact separate families.

Theresa Cardinal Brown is the director of immigration and cross-border policy at the Bipartisan Policy Center, "while the Obama administration 'did separate families,' it also tried to detain families together."

I'm not making stuff up or lying.

Originally Posted by BuckeyeBukaroo

What made Trump the bad guy is his executive order led to the widespread separating of babies, toddlers, and children from their parents a general, mandatory practice. Then both he and AG Sessions defended this cruelty on the national stage. This is also common knowledge. If Trump is wrong, he is wrong. There's no need to try to present his actions in a positive light by "what-about-isms" and trying to compare him to a man who isn't President any longer.

When the media and celebrities are claiming this has never been done and ignore the FACT that families WERE separated under obama, it's relevant and should be discussed.

Originally Posted by BuckeyeBukaroo

As for the "worse living conditions" you are the first one I have heard made that claim. Where is the documentation? I have actually read of children being forced to take certain "vitamins" (probably medicines) and I have also read where the children have been told to not to talk to media sources.

Seriously? Then you weren't paying attention and (like the media and celebrities) have recently jumped on the bandwagon.

These photos were taken in 2015. It's not just one pic. There are many. They were obtained as a result of a lawsuit filed against the obama administration.

From the lawsuit: “The complaint alleges that Tucson Sector Border Patrol holds men, women, and children in freezing, overcrowded, and filthy cells for days at a time in violation of the U.S. Constitution and CBP’s own policies. Detained individuals are stripped of outer layers of clothing and forced to suffer in brutally cold temperatures; deprived of beds, bedding, and sleep; denied adequate food, water, medicine and medical care, and basic sanitation and hygiene items such as soap, sufficient toilet paper, sanitary napkins, diapers, and showers; and held virtually incommunicado in these conditions for days.”







More photos from the obama administration's detention centers from 2014 Nogales, AZ and Brownsville, TX:

Originally Posted by BuckeyeBukaroo

And I have also read where the allegation has been made that illegal immigrant parents are being told that they would be reunited with their children if they agree to voluntarily return to their own country. How incredibly wicked is that?

I don't see that as "wicked." I see that as enforcing the border.

I have little sympathy for parents who willingly and knowingly put their kids in danger by either paying a coyote to smuggle them or by walking through the desert to get here. They're not only putting their kids' lives in danger but they're knowingly breaking the law. Call me whatever you wish, I don't care. I have very little sympathy.

What defines a nation is its laws, culture and borders. We're going to wake up some day and find out that we no longer have the USA as a result of the ridiculous masses of people invading from Mexico and Central/South America. We already are experiencing problems with MS13. It will only get worse. Look at some of the countries/cities in Europe which are unrecognizable due to the invasion of immigrants.

I wouldn't offer the children back if they willingly leave ... I would take them and their kids and forcibly deport them.

And put the National Guard on the border to do more than pick up trash.

[Aquila]

Crossing the boarder illegally isn't a capital crime like murder. It's a misdemeanor. Given the nature of the issue, I don't believe it is in the best interests of children to be separated from their parents in a foreign country. Imagine being in some foreign country, and for some reason you are rounded up and separated from your children. And let's imagine that that country doesn't have a system in place to adequately track both you and your child for a guaranteed reunion.

We're America. We can do better than this when it comes to families with children. Do they deserve better? Well, that might depend on personal opinion, disposition of heart, and experience. But even if they don't "deserve" better treatment, we're better than this. We can treat them better than they deserve.

Some might say, "Why be so good to them? They're criminals!" Well, like I said, it's a misdemeanor. Also, according to law, they have the right to file for asylum and have their cases considered by a duly authorized authority. Why separate parents from children and treat them like prisoners as they are filing for asylum? That makes no sense, because if an authority grants the asylum, then we've treated individuals seeking legitimate refuge like animals. That just isn't right.

We should only separate families if there is evidence of violent crime, abuse, or gross child endangerment.

I'm bracing for hearing about how children have been "lost" in the system. Even in our own system, American kids disappear every year, never to be seen again. How many have ended up being trafficked by those working with traffickers on the inside? Separating parent and child can present dangers a lot of people aren't considering. Parent and child should only be separated if absolutely necessary.

That's my opinion.

[aegsm76]

A - it is a lot more complicated than just a "misdemeanor".
link
http://www.alllaw.com/articles/nolo/...illegally.html
snippets
Criminal Penalties for Improper Entry

For the first improper entry offense, the person can be fined (as a criminal or civil penalty), or imprisoned for up to six months, or both. This is considered a misdemeanor under federal law (18 U.S.C.A. § 3559).

For a subsequent offense, or a reentry (or attempted reentry) after exclusion or deportation, the person can be fined or imprisoned for up to two years, or both. (See 8 U.S.C. Section 1325, 1326, I.N.A. Section 275, 276.) This is considered a low-level felony under federal law (18 U.S.C.A. § 3559).
Criminal Penalties for Unlawful Reentry

In case the above penalties aren't enough to deter illegal U.S. entrants, a separate section of the law adds felony penalties for reentry (or attempted reentry) in cases where the person had been convicted of certain types of crimes and thus removed (deported) from the U.S., as follows:

[Aquila]

I still think we should build the boarder fencing/wall, and once completed consider a window of amnesty for those in the United States. Those who qualify after proper vetting can become citizens. Those who do not come forward as part of the program who are discovered later and those who do not pass proper vetting should be deported.