what is your opinion..

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Is pre trib rapture true? How about immortal soul? Burning in Hell for eternity? No Biblical Perfection? Christmas and Easter? Beards are a sin? No headcovering/veil?

Do YOU share these things in common with the UPC? Other Oneness groups?

You didn't answer the question.

There are apostolic believers and churches that believe in head coverings, conditional immortality, not keeping pagan holy days, men having beards, and who reject the pretrib rapture delusion. The UPC is hardly the definitive standard of what is apostolic.

Now, can you answer the question? You said aside from Oneness and new birth, you have "NOTHING in common with apostolics." According to YOU, the ONLY PEOPLE ON EARTH who know God and have salvation, are wrong on EVERYTHING ELSE?

And you assume the problem is with THEM, and not yourself?

Really? How does that work? I'm being serious here. Doesn't that strike you as... wacky?

[Amanah]

I read/skimmed through the link
Conditional immortality proven - http://www.robertwr.com/

It made sense to me . . . but I need to look at it again more closely.

It does seem sadistic to have people burn in hell for eternity, vs just having them *not obtain eternal life*

And the idea of an eternal soul fits more into Buddhist/Neoplatonist/Agustinian philosophy than Christianity.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Esaias

You didn't answer the question.

There are apostolic believers and churches that believe in head coverings, conditional immortality, not keeping pagan holy days, men having beards, and who reject the pretrib rapture delusion. The UPC is hardly the definitive standard of what is apostolic.

Now, can you answer the question? You said aside from Oneness and new birth, you have "NOTHING in common with apostolics." According to YOU, the ONLY PEOPLE ON EARTH who know God and have salvation, are wrong on EVERYTHING ELSE?

And you assume the problem is with THEM, and not yourself?

Really? How does that work? I'm being serious here. Doesn't that strike you as... wacky?

Well I am also serious. Where are the Churches that believe what you are saying? In my town the only thing I can connect to is one Church does allow beards. Yet they dont accept any of the rest.

Im aware of 2 Oneness Churches in America that have what I consider the foundation teachings of Christ. Believe me I have searched long and hard.

Yes when I say there is practically no areas of agreement with me among "Apostolics" I am serious. I realize there are some individuals here and there that believe all that I do.

My faith tells me there are Church groups out there both here and abroad that probably do have a full foundation. I cannot by any means say I have exhausted all the Apostolic Churches on Earth!

I have had evidently more experience than you with groups outside Oneness that have "other" foundation truth yet still lacking in areas. To you this may sound outrageous that people who have the Holy Ghost and are not yet Oneness might actually know God by experience but yet not fully by knowledge but it was my own experience as well as many other Oneness who started out in Trinity or something else.

I WANT to feel like I have some things in common with Oneness believers because I am one. I have contended for Oneness to the Trins as much as anyone I know. I welcome fellowship with other Oneness.

Lets take you and me for example. We both believe in the resurrection of the dead as opposed to instant Heaven at death. We both believe when God is finished punishing the wicked in Hell they die.
I think we agree that Spirit filled Christians can cease from sinning.

We agree Christmas and Easter have no place in the Church and the headcovering/veil does.

Now one might think with all that in common we might have a pleasant relationship.

And yet.....it would seem all that does not connect us as you never fail to attack me in other areas as on this thread.

Always putting down what you consider to be the "Charismatic" movement as if you understand what that means to everyone who is Charismatic.

Always raking those who feel it is a GOOD thing to seek out the original Hebrew name for YHWH and Jesus over the coals. Always acting as if all of them are beserk trying to overthrow the English name and the "original" Greek New Testament.

I could add that after being on this Forum for a lot of years having posted over 10000 times I basically feel like an outsider here.

So just think of the strife that emanates at times between you and I. Then consider that outside of the 2 local UPC Churches I know that teach at least foundation doctrine and a few friends I have that are Oneness I am closer probably to YOUR BELIEFS than anyone else I know!

So it should not seem strange that I feel little in common with Apostolic Churches.

So yes I dont have any problem saying from my own vantage point that the GREAT and I do mean great majority of Oneness Churches teach falsely once that depart from Oneness and Acts 2:38.

If you think I am "wacky" you were not the first.

Peace and love.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Amanah

I read/skimmed through the link
Conditional immortality proven - http://www.robertwr.com/

It made sense to me . . . but I need to look at it again more closely.

It does seem sadistic to have people burn in hell for eternity, vs just having them *not obtain eternal life*

And the idea of an eternal soul fits more into Buddhist/Neoplatonist/Agustinian philosophy than Christianity.

The closer you look the clearer it will become!

[Amanah]

Bro Michael, something you might find interesting, two of the young men in DKB's Christmas picture (I don't know if they are sons or sons in law) were sporting beards, closely cropped, but beards none the less . . .

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Amanah

Bro Michael, something you might find interesting, two of the young men in DKB's Christmas picture (I don't know if they are sons or sons in law) were sporting beards, closely cropped, but beards none the less . . .

I remember seeing that. It would be nice to see that trickle down into the rank and file.

[peter83]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Well I am also serious. Where are the Churches that believe what you are saying? In my town the only thing I can connect to is one Church does allow beards. Yet they dont accept any of the rest.

Im aware of 2 Oneness Churches in America that have what I consider the foundation teachings of Christ. Believe me I have searched long and hard.

Yes when I say there is practically no areas of agreement with me among "Apostolics" I am serious. I realize there are some individuals here and there that believe all that I do.

My faith tells me there are Church groups out there both here and abroad that probably do have a full foundation. I cannot by any means say I have exhausted all the Apostolic Churches on Earth!

I have had evidently more experience than you with groups outside Oneness that have "other" foundation truth yet still lacking in areas. To you this may sound outrageous that people who have the Holy Ghost and are not yet Oneness might actually know God by experience but yet not fully by knowledge but it was my own experience as well as many other Oneness who started out in Trinity or something else.

I WANT to feel like I have some things in common with Oneness believers because I am one. I have contended for Oneness to the Trins as much as anyone I know. I welcome fellowship with other Oneness.

Lets take you and me for example. We both believe in the resurrection of the dead as opposed to instant Heaven at death. We both believe when God is finished punishing the wicked in Hell they die.
I think we agree that Spirit filled Christians can cease from sinning.

We agree Christmas and Easter have no place in the Church and the headcovering/veil does.

Now one might think with all that in common we might have a pleasant relationship.

And yet.....it would seem all that does not connect us as you never fail to attack me in other areas as on this thread.

Always putting down what you consider to be the "Charismatic" movement as if you understand what that means to everyone who is Charismatic.

Always raking those who feel it is a GOOD thing to seek out the original Hebrew name for YHWH and Jesus over the coals. Always acting as if all of them are beserk trying to overthrow the English name and the "original" Greek New Testament.

I could add that after being on this Forum for a lot of years having posted over 10000 times I basically feel like an outsider here.

So just think of the strife that emanates at times between you and I. Then consider that outside of the 2 local UPC Churches I know that teach at least foundation doctrine and a few friends I have that are Oneness I am closer probably to YOUR BELIEFS than anyone else I know!

So it should not seem strange that I feel little in common with Apostolic Churches.

So yes I dont have any problem saying from my own vantage point that the GREAT and I do mean great majority of Oneness Churches teach falsely once that depart from Oneness and Acts 2:38.

If you think I am "wacky" you were not the first.

Peace and love.

So are you attending to a church now?

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by peter83

So are you attending to a church now?

I am not at this time attending a local Church. I have prayed about it without ceasing and believe I will in process of time.

[peter83]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

I am not at this time attending a local Church. I have prayed about it without ceasing and believe I will in process of time.

So you can just attent at the nearest Apostolic Church and maybe cut the beard

13 Therefore, if food causes my brother to stumble, I will by no means eat meat, lest I cause my brother to stumble.
Although a beard is not bad in my view is better to sacrifice your beard that the church.

[Amanah]

My husband has a beard and attends a UPC church with me, it isn't an issue.

• Standards are not preached from the pulpit
• Standards are taught in Discipleship class, and facial hair is not mentioned

if Jesus was Jewish he no doubt had a beard, preaching against a beard is silly.