A Cult vs. A Church

[Livelystone]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

There isn't anything perfect in this world, but what are some ideas you have personally for church operations?

Signs of He who is perfect at work such as healing of serious life threatening diseases, or other miracles should be showing within said ministry.

God has always blessed obedience with worshipping Him in truth and in spirit with signs and wonders.

If a church is not witnessing any legitimate miracles within their gathering, God's blessing are not upon said church, and there is a reason why not

[good samaritan]

Just today I was paying the church ins. over the phone and I have been praying for God to place people in my path to minister to. As I was about to get off the phone the lady asked, "pastor, you are pentecostal, right?" I said yes. She then asked me to pray because she was battling with cancer and it has been really hard on her. I felt my prayer was being answered. I didn't know this lady I was paying on a toll free number and don't even know where they were headquartered.

I don't proclaim in no way to see the signs following that I read of in scripture, but it is my desire. The only problem I see with relying on signs is Jesus said blessed are those who believe and have not seen. I know people who have went to great extents in prayer and fasting and have acted on faith and still didn't receive the miraculous. I cannot see where some of these have erred in their faith or commitment.

I am interested in what you believe is the major hindrances?

[shazeep]

"you ask that you may consume it upon your lusts."

a harsh truth is that cancer is a consequence, and we have been completely misled as to its causes, imo. One cannot keep smoking, for example, and expect to be healed of lung cancer.

[shag]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

There isn't anything perfect in this world, but what are some ideas you have personally for church operations?

The church can meet to study scripture together(instead of one man yelling his interpretation while others yell back "preach it pastor!"), discuss together life's challenges in each of our lives and biblical answers to conquer those challenges(instead of trying to answer life's challenges by weekly running a circle around the "sanctuary" screaming and stumbling into everyone else at the last verse of "catch on fire"), and in regard to the working of miracles if they are in operation within the church which is the people then they should not be limited to Gods "holy house" but wherever the people physically are in their daily lives.
Stop trying to win (sucker) new converts into thinking church(people not a holy bldg) is all about life INSIDE a 4 walled holy bldg.
For starters.
Sorry for any ranting, just lately where I'm at seems everything is all about involvement around a holy bldg.

[Lafon]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

There isn't anything perfect in this world, but what are some ideas you have personally for church operations?

In Ephesians 4:27 Paul the apostle wrote to advise us that Christ Jesus is coming back to the earth to receive "a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish."

Judging from the church we find in the world today it appears there is lots of work to be accomplished for His church to meet this criterion, for we are so fractured, and dis-unified there's only a small handful of important scriptural issues outside of Acts 2:38 that we are able to get a majority to agree upon.

With regards to "church operations," why not follow the biblical principles that were commanded by the Lord Himself, and delivered through the words of Paul the apostle to the saints of the early church at Corinth? It's all set forth in plain, easy-to-understand language in I Corinthians 14:26-40 (and please note, Paul does make it explicitly clear that it was the Lord who has commanded that it be done this way - see the latter part of verse #37).

Want a "perfect church"? Then let's start doing things the way the Lord decreed for it to be done and dispense with man's agenda. Maybe then we shall see the revival we all so desperately desire!

[Carl]

Originally Posted by shag

The church can meet to study scripture together(instead of one man yelling his interpretation while others yell back "preach it pastor!"), discuss together life's challenges in each of our lives and biblical answers to conquer those challenges(instead of trying to answer life's challenges by weekly running a circle around the "sanctuary" screaming and stumbling into everyone else at the last verse of "catch on fire"), and in regard to the working of miracles if they are in operation within the church which is the people then they should not be limited to Gods "holy house" but wherever the people physically are in their daily lives.
Stop trying to win (sucker) new converts into thinking church(people not a holy bldg) is all about life INSIDE a 4 walled holy bldg.
For starters.
Sorry for any ranting, just lately where I'm at seems everything is all about involvement around a holy bldg.

Not a rant at all Shag. Well said.

[shazeep]

ya, that was good

Originally Posted by Lafon

In Ephesians 4:27 Paul the apostle wrote to advise us that Christ Jesus is coming back to the earth to receive "a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish."

Judging from the church we find in the world today it appears there is lots of work to be accomplished for His church to meet this criterion, for we are so fractured, and dis-unified there's only a small handful of important scriptural issues outside of Acts 2:38 that we are able to get a majority to agree upon.

don't worry--that isn't the Church, anyway--that is the people crying "Lord, Lord," imo.

[good samaritan]

Originally Posted by shazeep

"you ask that you may consume it upon your lusts."

a harsh truth is that cancer is a consequence, and we have been completely misled as to its causes, imo. One cannot keep smoking, for example, and expect to be healed of lung cancer.

I believe it is James that says this in his letter. The thing I don't believe is that the mother with the dying toddler, or the person dying with cancer who has never smoked a day in their life, or the lady that has been stricken with diabetes since she was a child; are being any more selfish than anyone else in wanting to receive healing. I don't see where people in scripture had to be perfect or perfectly motivated to receive their healing. Naaman for example was so full of pride he didn't even want to do what the prophet said, but yet he received a miracle. I don't pretend to have the answers and I really don't think any of us does. I can only say it must be the will of God.

As for church operations, if it was allowed to be a free for all, people learning would probably be more confused than they are now. 30+ people cannot stand up speaking out all their questions and comments in a large assembly. As for people running isles that takes place during worship and if someone feels to do that I should not judge them for it. Most of the churches in our areas have began a program called cell groups where we break up into smaller home groups through the week, where it is more appropriate to for people to study with question and answer.

Our church is small, so some in our church we serve coffee and other refreshments following most of our services for those who want to stay and have christian fellowship. Although, church service as we know it may not be perfect there has been many to come to God through them. IMO, many people become bitter with the church and develop a holier than thou attitude that allows them to disfellowship and not feel guilty. Everyone in the church must have it wrong, but that individual is the only one with the right attitude toward God.

I would love to hear solutions and not problems.

[good samaritan]

Originally Posted by Lafon

In Ephesians 4:27 Paul the apostle wrote to advise us that Christ Jesus is coming back to the earth to receive "a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish."

Judging from the church we find in the world today it appears there is lots of work to be accomplished for His church to meet this criterion, for we are so fractured, and dis-unified there's only a small handful of important scriptural issues outside of Acts 2:38 that we are able to get a majority to agree upon.

With regards to "church operations," why not follow the biblical principles that were commanded by the Lord Himself, and delivered through the words of Paul the apostle to the saints of the early church at Corinth? It's all set forth in plain, easy-to-understand language in I Corinthians 14:26-40 (and please note, Paul does make it explicitly clear that it was the Lord who has commanded that it be done this way - see the latter part of verse #37).

Want a "perfect church"? Then let's start doing things the way the Lord decreed for it to be done and dispense with man's agenda. Maybe then we shall see the revival we all so desperately desire!

The church is made to be without spot or wrinkle by the blood of Christ and not self perfection. Jesus makes us perfect through His sacrifice. Not everyone that goes to church is going to hear well done, but that doesn't mean that every one has gotten it wrong in our assemblies. Wheat and tares all will come up together and that is what I meant by no church is perfect in the natural. We are going to wrestle with carnality as long as we are in this fleshly form.

[good samaritan]

It is easy to spew out all the things that is bad with the church. I think negativism should be expressed with solutions. If a problem doesn't have a solution than I should shake the dust off and move on. I don't mind complaints, but I want to know what could make things better, explicitly.