Veil of flesh - Page 4

mfblume · #31 02-19-2015, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shazeep

Ah, very nice! It came to me as i was trying to fall asleep that it is a codependency--or "double-mindedness" issue. Codependents can be very giving; expecting in return. This is actually a kind of manipulation.

I'm not following your point.

good samaritan · #32 02-19-2015, 10:53 AM

I have always viewed the veil as a type of sin. Independence of God is a result of the sin in the garden but I can't see where it was the initial sin. I believe it was lust of the flesh that caused them to eat of the fruit and not that they wanted to be independent of God. Also a statement was made that works is the opposite of faith. Works is the result of faith. We are not saved by our works we are saved by our choice to follow Jesus and be dependent on Him (like you have been saying.) Works will proceed out of that choice and I hope that all would understand that.

good samaritan · #33 02-19-2015, 11:05 AM

good posts as usual, but sometimes it just seems that people get the message of grace confused. The turning to God that has been said is becoming dependent on God, but that also means we surrender our will to Him. I said in another post, He must first be our Lord before becoming our Savior. Repentance/turning comes first and then "His salvation" will begin to work in our lives. By being dependent on God we are submitting our selves to His will. Jesus portrayed it in His prayer at Gethsemane not my will but thine. Dependence on God means death to self and His will above are own. That is were works come in to play. We are not saved by our works, but our salvation produces them. Jesus is our salvation. Got Jesus? Got works. It is not about devaluing works, but it is about getting the horse up in front of the carriage where it is supposed to be. My submission to Jesus brings the works in my life.

Pressing-On · #34 02-19-2015, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

WOOHOO! Amen!

It's like cataracts grow over the eyes of our understanding again like a veiling after God first removed them, when we go back under legalities!

I feel like writing another book on this issue.

Great thread and please do write another book!

shazeep · #35 02-19-2015, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

I'm not following your point.

ya, you're not alone

we are a codependent nation; and no one even knows what it means. basically, i was restating your point. GS just put it a different way above. (very nice)

mfblume · #36 02-19-2015, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by good samaritan

good posts as usual, but sometimes it just seems that people get the message of grace confused. The turning to God that has been said is becoming dependent on God, but that also means we surrender our will to Him. I said in another post, He must first be our Lord before becoming our Savior. Repentance/turning comes first and then "His salvation" will begin to work in our lives. By being dependent on God we are submitting our selves to His will. Jesus portrayed it in His prayer at Gethsemane not my will but thine. Dependence on God means death to self and His will above are own. That is were works come in to play. We are not saved by our works, but our salvation produces them. Jesus is our salvation. Got Jesus? Got works. It is not about devaluing works, but it is about getting the horse up in front of the carriage where it is supposed to be. My submission to Jesus brings the works in my life.

Right. Be careful to maintain good works. Just don't think they render you righteous.

mfblume · #37 02-19-2015, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by good samaritan

I have always viewed the veil as a type of sin. Independence of God is a result of the sin in the garden but I can't see where it was the initial sin. I believe it was lust of the flesh that caused them to eat of the fruit and not that they wanted to be independent of God. Also a statement was made that works is the opposite of faith. Works is the result of faith. We are not saved by our works we are saved by our choice to follow Jesus and be dependent on Him (like you have been saying.) Works will proceed out of that choice and I hope that all would understand that.

the ultimate goal was independence from God. The sin got them to that point.

Aquila · #38 02-20-2015, 07:13 AM

Bro. Blume, one of the most powerful things I've ever read. God bless and keep you and yours.

mfblume · #39 02-20-2015, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquila

Bro. Blume, one of the most powerful things I've ever read. God bless and keep you and yours.

Very encouraging, brother. Thanks.

Godsdrummer · #40 02-20-2015, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

Right. Be careful to maintain good works. Just don't think they render you righteous.

Mike this whole study you have done is great. But the greatest statement in my opinion was that one above.

Our works cannot and do not make us righteous, they are a reflection of the righteousness of Christ working through us.