Location: Phoenix, AZ.: Baptized in the NAME of the Lord Jesus in 1982.
Posts: 2,065
Re: Determining which biblical laws apply today.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mfblume
Yes, but it is the condemnation described in Romans 7 where Paul was condemned and cried out for deliverance.
I don't think so. It is just that things go haywire and cannot work for us. Man simply has not the ability to stop sin in his flesh from rising up and slaying him every time he uses will power to do good. We put ourselves under the law of sin and death more than anything, and sell ourselves to sin, as Paul described in Rom 7:14.
It's a contrast of what works and does not work. Paul MINDED the things of the flesh when he willed to do the good deeds of the law, but did not find ability to perform them. He AGREED with the Law that it is good and its righteousness should be fulfilled. However, Romans 8 says what Law could not do in getting us to fulfil its righteousness, God did through Christ. So, the minding the things of the flesh that are mentioned after this corresponds to the context of the MINDING to keep law using fleshly exertion of will power mentioned in 7:25 and 7:18, for that is the only way to keep law.
They backslide.
Yes. Basically, if I read the scriptures correctly, to be "carnally minded" is to not believe that we have the POWER to keep the flesh under, or one is beginning to sin willfully. It's a danger sign.
As for the backsliding believer: I think one stops the backsliding when one repents, or when one dies without repentance. "My thoughts"!
Ia it a sin to tell a lie, or to commit murder ? Sure it is. Certain behaviors were sinful prior to the Law of Moses and still are subsequent to the Law of Moses. But they were also made part of the law itself.
Are we obligated to obey the law or any part of it ? No. Is it still a sin to lie ? Yes.
How do we determine the code of conduct to follow ? I would think the ideas expressed in the NT are the best place to look. Or observe the behavior of those who lived prior to the giving of the law.
Is it a sin to steal or lie or murder ? Yes. Is it a sin to eat bacon or work on the Sabbath ? No.
Yes, but it is the condemnation described in Romans 7 where Paul was condemned and cried out for deliverance.
I don't think so. It is just that things go haywire and cannot work for us. Man simply has not the ability to stop sin in his flesh from rising up and slaying him every time he uses will power to do good. We put ourselves under the law of sin and death more than anything, and sell ourselves to sin, as Paul described in Rom 7:14.
It's a contrast of what works and does not work. Paul MINDED the things of the flesh when he willed to do the good deeds of the law, but did not find ability to perform them. He AGREED with the Law that it is good and its righteousness should be fulfilled. However, Romans 8 says what Law could not do in getting us to fulfil its righteousness, God did through Christ. So, the minding the things of the flesh that are mentioned after this corresponds to the context of the MINDING to keep law using fleshly exertion of will power mentioned in 7:25 and 7:18, for that is the only way to keep law.
Ia it a sin to tell a lie, or to commit murder ? Sure it is. Certain behaviors were sinful prior to the Law of Moses and still are subsequent to the Law of Moses. But they were also made part of the law itself.
Are we obligated to obey the law or any part of it ? No. Is it still a sin to lie ? Yes.
How do we determine the code of conduct to follow ? I would think the ideas expressed in the NT are the best place to look. Or observe the behavior of those who lived prior to the giving of the law.
Is it a sin to steal or lie or murder ? Yes. Is it a sin to eat bacon or work on the Sabbath ? No.
What about this though?......1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
This passage is speaking of the "abolished" Law???
You do realize who wrote this passage, to whom it was written and when it was written, right?
Can you see the sinner and saint in this passage?.....6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not(saint) whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.(sinner/backslider).......
Now look which one that John put back under the Law...4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
What state of judgment? lol. Backsliding is losing out with God, Sean. Who cares what state of judgment? Fact is they lose salvation.
__________________ ...MY THOUGHTS, ANYWAY.
"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."
Yes. Basically, if I read the scriptures correctly, to be "carnally minded" is to not believe that we have the POWER to keep the flesh under, or one is beginning to sin willfully. It's a danger sign.
As for the backsliding believer: I think one stops the backsliding when one repents, or when one dies without repentance. "My thoughts"!
Agreed.
__________________ ...MY THOUGHTS, ANYWAY.
"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."
Ia it a sin to tell a lie, or to commit murder ? Sure it is. Certain behaviors were sinful prior to the Law of Moses and still are subsequent to the Law of Moses. But they were also made part of the law itself.
Are we obligated to obey the law or any part of it ? No. Is it still a sin to lie ? Yes.
How do we determine the code of conduct to follow ? I would think the ideas expressed in the NT are the best place to look. Or observe the behavior of those who lived prior to the giving of the law.
Is it a sin to steal or lie or murder ? Yes. Is it a sin to eat bacon or work on the Sabbath ? No.
__________________
Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
What state of judgment? lol. Backsliding is losing out with God, Sean. Who cares what state of judgment? Fact is they lose salvation.
hmm, forever? your post would indicate "forever." This seems like a...naive? maybe, view of salvation--which it seems God does not even determine until "the end."
"neither do I condemn (judge) you; go, and be sinless." Christ
seems like there is a central concept that is not being grasped here, if a pastor feels qualified to do what Christ would not. Just lobbing grenades here, yes, there is a sense in which i get you.
What standard is used to cause a saint that is sinning to become a backslider?
This standard?......1 John 3:4Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
i am noting that one has this (constant, unending) conversation about sin and law best with Pentecostals; even "Apostolic" Catholics that i have (purposefully) broached the subject with seem uncomfortable...
"You are freed from the Law of sin and death," but it is too easy, imo, to engage most westerners in a convo on law, sin, and death. Why is this? (trick question)
you might perhaps read that differently...
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