Christianity is based on substitutionary atonement

[Originalist]

[Gnostic Bishop]

Originally Posted by Aquila

All I see here is gnostic dogma vs. biblical dogma. Unless you are willing to honestly consider the point of the Bible's message... you're guilty of the very sin you accuse Seeker of.

I have and have decided from what Jesus and the bible say, that it is not any kind of justice to use a scapegoat or a human sacrifice to get myself out of trouble, is the right policy to follow.

Note how you save yourself without a human sacrifice.

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

1 Timothy 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
================

Note why your policy is completely immoral.

Jesus said to pick up your cross and follow him but I see that you have taken the line that someone else should pay your dues. Quite manly and moral that. Not.

Do you really think someone else can pay your dues and allow you to shirk your just reward?

Deuteronomy 24:16 (ESV) “Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin.

Ezekiel 18:20 (ESV) The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.

The declaration which says that God visits the sins of the fathers upon the children is contrary to every principle of moral justice. [Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason]

As above so below.

If you had God's power, would you not be able to find a way that does not go against the wisdom of Jesus and the bible?

Perhaps like being man enough to step up to your own demands for a worthy sacrifice?

That is what a good God would do.

If I am wrong then provide a decent argument and not just a denial.

Regards
DL

[Gnostic Bishop]

Originally Posted by Aquila

God took it upon Himself through substitutionary atonement and propitiation to provide a way of escape through the Gospel.

Sin must be judged. .

Is God a just judge?

This speaks of Jesus.
He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake.

The above quote shows this as Gods first actual judgement and shows his setting and accepting a bribe of a human sacrifice to corrupt or alter his justice and judgement.

Justice usually states that only the punishment of the guilty is acceptable to justice and that it would be unjust to punish the innocent.

God’s corruption of this usual justice is what the bribe or sacrifice of Jesus bought. Injustice.

If you elect your judges in your country, would you vote God in as a fair and just judge knowing that he can be bribed?

Is God a just judge?

Regards
DL

[Gnostic Bishop]

Originally Posted by Originalist

Yes he is angry with the wicked every day. But his anger will be kindled even more on judgment day against those who did not esteem his son and the sacrifice he made as something of value but rather chose to face judgment in the filthy rags of their own righteousness. That would be you. Yes, all your cockiness and arguments are gong to melt away like wax on that day. The only thing coming out of your mouth will be, "Jesus Christ is Lord!!" as your knee bows before him.

Do you bow to your brethren?

I do not nor do I demand it. You make Jesus just a power hungry God who wants sheople on their knees when what he wants is people like you to grow up.

Listen to his words and join me and Jesus. If not, take your satanic morals and ignore your betters.

The thinking shown below is the Gnostic Christian’s goal as taught by Jesus but know that any belief can be internalized.

[BrotherEastman]

oh brother, not ANOTHER atheist. Good grief!

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by Gnostic Bishop

Do you bow to your brethren?

I do not nor do I demand it. You make Jesus just a power hungry God who wants sheople on their knees when what he wants is people like you to grow up.

Listen to his words and join me and Jesus. If not, take your satanic morals and ignore your betters.

The thinking shown below is the Gnostic Christian’s goal as taught by Jesus but know that any belief can be internalized.

This method and mind set is how you become I am and brethren to Jesus.


When you can name your God, I am, and mean yourself, then you will begin to know the only God you will ever find. It is to become fully human.

Regards
DL

I suspected you'd ignore my other post concerning the resurrection. And you completely miss the reason you will bow to Jesus...

Who, being in very nature[a] God,
did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;
7 rather, he made himself nothing
by taking the very nature[b] of a servant,
being made in human likeness.
8 And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself
by becoming obedient to death—
even death on a cross!


9 Therefore God exalted him to the highest place
and gave him the name that is above every name,
10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.

It's not about being power hungry and wanting people on their knees. He has EARNED the right to be exalted and worshipped. One day when you see him he will not have to demand your worship. You will gladly give it when you behold him. You will be so overwhelmed by his worthiness that you will not be able to contain the praise. But it will be too late then to make him Lord.

[Originalist]

still waiting for an answer on all of this...



I'm ignoring nothing. He did do God's will. But he did it of his own free will. "I lay my life down. I take it up again."

Paul said "the life I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the son of God who loved me and gave himself for me."

You also forget that the saving gospel is not just the death of Christ, but his resurrection. In fact, we base our salvation on his resurrection,not his death. Again Paul said...


Quote:
For if, when we were enemies, we were to reconciled God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. (Romans 5:8)

So you really do not even understand the gospel. But let's face it. Your real beef is the "thou shalt nots". You want to do those things and you resent the fact that those commandments condemn you. You are angry that God won't accept you even if you violate his laws. You want to be "good enough as you are" and the thought that such a terrible price had to be paid for you only makes you more resentful. You are the epitome of self righteousness. You killed Christ, not God.

[Gnostic Bishop]

Originally Posted by BrotherEastman

oh brother, not ANOTHER atheist. Good grief!

No. Worse from a Christian POV.

I am a Gnostic Christian. An Abrahamic cult like your own that you ancestors tried to decimate but failed. Here is a brief link in case, as most Christians, you are not aware of your early history of the days your religion ushered in the Dark Ages and Inquisition.

[Gnostic Bishop]

Originally Posted by Originalist

You will be so overwhelmed by his worthiness that you will not be able to contain the praise. But it will be too late then to make him Lord.

Your church must have used fear mongering with you when young.

It does not work with adults so you might want to start growing up and acting like one.

[Gnostic Bishop]

Originally Posted by Originalist

still waiting for an answer on all of this...



I'm ignoring nothing. He did do God's will. But he did it of his own free will. "I lay my life down. I take it up again."

Paul said "the life I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the son of God who loved me and gave himself for me."

You also forget that the saving gospel is not just the death of Christ, but his resurrection. In fact, we base our salvation on his resurrection,not his death. Again Paul said...


Quote:
For if, when we were enemies, we were to reconciled God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. (Romans 5:8)

So you really do not even understand the gospel. But let's face it. Your real beef is the "thou shalt nots". You want to do those things and you resent the fact that those commandments condemn you. You are angry that God won't accept you even if you violate his laws. You want to be "good enough as you are" and the thought that such a terrible price had to be paid for you only makes you more resentful. You are the epitome of self righteousness. You killed Christ, not God.

Dead men do not walk about. Grow up and drop the woo.

Any theology that relies on fantasy, miracles and magic is not a worthy theology.

Faith without facts is for fools.

Go get your fool quote to throw at me now as your predictable reply and then I think we are done here.

Regards
DL