Will American Christians be persecuted in your lif

[seekerman]

Originally Posted by Esaias

So you don't believe the NT teaches that christians should expect persecution because of their faith? Or that the 'world hates God and His people'?

Or was all that just 'for them, back then, and not us today'?

Of course Christians will be persecuted because of their faith.....just not in America. In the middle east, sure. In communist counties, probably.

The mass killing of Christians isn't going to happen in the USA...nor much of the rest of the world. If America ever becomes a theocracy, Christians will persecute Christians, but it's not going to become a theocracy so that's not going to happen.

Christians have the worse days of persecution long long behind them.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by seekerman

The mass killing of Christians isn't going to happen in the USA...nor much of the rest of the world.

On what do you base this belief of yours?

[Luke]

Originally Posted by Luke

Ok i understand that noteveryone will agree with me on this but I'm ok with that. how do we know that those thngs are not manifestations of God's wrath?




Revelations 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
10 and they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? 11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

Revelation 3:10
Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.


Daniel 11:21 I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;
25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.


Yeah i guess your right Daniel and John didnt know what they were talking about.

Bump

[seekerman]

Originally Posted by Luke

Ok i understand that noteveryone will agree with me on this but I'm ok with that. how do we know that those thngs are not manifestations of God's wrath?

If we don't know that God punished 250,000 people for their sins during the tsunami, what good did it do? No lesson was learned, such as being afraid of God or he'll kill people in mass quantities.

If we don't have a lesson from the mass killing, if we don't know, there's no lesson to learn.

Revelations 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
10 and they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? 11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

Daniel 11:21 I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;
25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.


Yeah i guess your right Daniel and John didnt know what they were talking about.

Daniel and John weren't speaking of today, in my opinion. What would make you think they were speaking of 2013 rather than 1713 or 2113?

[KeptByTheWord]

Persecution may or may not come to the USA in my lifetime... but whether it does or not, doesn't mean it never will. I personally think it probably will... but that is just my opinion, not worth much. How the Lord decides to put all the pieces of the puzzle together in the end will remain a mystery... but I do believe those who are believers will be persecuted in some form or fashion in this nation soon.

[Abiding Now]

Some folks will not suffer any persecution.
2Tim. 3:12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.

[renee819]

Seekerman wrote,

Daniel and John weren't speaking of today, in my opinion. What would make you think they were speaking of 2013 rather than 1713 or 2113?

The only way, that Daniel and John were not talking about today, this generation, would be, if this is not the end-time. Which many would like to deny. I would too, if I didn't know better.

Daniel 8:17 So he came near where I stood: and when he came, I was afraid, and fell upon my face: but he said unto me, Understand, O son of man: for at the time of the end shall be the vision.

The vision of the beasts, representing the different nations of the end-time. And the dreadful Beast, that just about destroys the earth, and the 'little horn' that comes out of that Beast.

:19 And he said, Behold, I will make thee know what shall be in the last end of the indignation: for at the time appointed the end shall be.

Daniel 11:32 And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits.
:33 And they that understand among the people shall instruct many: yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days.
:34 Now when they shall fall, they shall be holpen with a little help: but many shall cleave to them with flatteries.
:35 And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed.

The Book of Daniel was sealed until this, the end time. That is why all theories put forth before this time, is just that, theories. And why now, because those that have eyes to see, can see these things happening right before our eyes.
The book of Revelation was not sealed. However, you can not understand the end-time in Rev. without understanding Daniel.

Daniel 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book

.

This corresponds with Rev 12.

:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
:3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.
:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

We live in the age of knowledge.

:8 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things? :9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.
:10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.
:13 But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days.

Daniel did not understand what he was seeing and writing. Neither did the Apostles. That is why they thought that Jesus might come back at any time, until John saw his visions. John understood some of what he was seeing, but yet Daniel had not been unsealed. But by then, the other apostles had been martyred.

I believe every Christian should study and know what time that they live in. And yes, God will give the understanding.
It is time for those that have been playing around, or backslide TO REPENT. If they don't want to make hell their home.

Matthew 16:1 The Pharisees also with the Sadducees came, and tempting desired him that he would shew them a sign from heaven.
:2 He answered and said unto them, When it is evening, ye say, It will be fair weather: for the sky is red.
:3 And in the morning, It will be foul weather to day: for the sky is red and lowring. O ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky; but can ye not discern the signs of the times?

[renee819]

TO CONTINUE
and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.

“by peace shall destroy many:”

From my last Post,
And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart,

Craft----deceit 20
deceitful 8
deceitfully 3
false 2
guile 2
feigned 1
craft 1
subtilty 1
treachery 1

from <H7411> (ramah) in the sense of deceiving; fraud :- craft, deceit (-ful, -fully), false, feigned, guile, subtilly, treachery

he will promise “peace and safety” no more wars---a Utopia. But it is a false peace, a sham, trickery, all the words above.

All of these beasts are connected. Beasts represent Countries or Governments. Horns represent power, as well as governments.

Now back to the dreadful and terrible beast.

Daniel 7:15 I Daniel was grieved in my spirit in the midst of my body, and the visions of my head troubled me.
:16 I came near unto one of them that stood by, and asked him the truth of all this. So he told me, and made me know the interpretation of the things.
:19 Then I would know the truth of the fourth beast, which was diverse from all the others, exceeding dreadful, whose teeth were of iron, and his nails of brass; which devoured, brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with his feet;
:20 And of the ten horns that were in his head, and of the other which came up, and before whom three fell; even of that horn that had eyes, and a mouth that spake very great things, whose look was more stout than his fellows.
:21 I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;
:22 Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom

.

How long will the Beast prevail against them?
“Until the Ancient of days came,” Until the “first resurrection.”

Daniel 7:23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.

That's pretty strong language. “shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.” The War machines now have the ability to do that.

Daniel 7:24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings

.

Watch the “Ten Horns” ----the world has already been divided into Ten Regions. Some are recognized, some have been proposed. (I'll put the 10 on here if anyone wants it)

Since the 10 horns cover the whole earth, the “little horn “ that subdues the 3, will come from the 10.

Now the question is, “Will the saints be persecuted?”

The Little Horn

:21 I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;

The King with a fierce countenance.

Daniel 8:24 And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people

.

Revelation 13:3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
:4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

Worship the Beast? Because of the promise of 'Peace and safety” NO ONE CAN MAKE WAR AGAINST HIM, BECAUSE HE HAS DESTROYED ALL THAT CAME AGAINST HIM.
They will also worship the dragon, Devil, because they know that he gave power to the Beast.
Christian's will have been killed or will be, but this man has power. It will look like that Christians have no power, like when the jews told Jesus, “If you be the Son of God, come down off that cross.”

:6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven

.

We were taught, which is false, that the Beast/Antichrist, will deceive people by saying that he is Christ. No way. Do you think he is going to Blaspheme God, then turn around and say, “Oh by the way, I am Christ.” No, he will claim to have more power than God. And he will display great power, thru the magical power of the Devil.

:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations

.

ALL NATIONS.

Christians have thought for a long time, “Oh no, it can't happen here.” While in China, many parts of the world, Christians are being killed every day. It reminds of the pride of the Jews in Jesus day, thinking they were so special, so they couldn't be wrong. Therefore Jesus had to be wrong.

:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world

.

I'd be very sure, NOW, while we have time, that my name was written in the Lambs Book of Life, and not blotted out.

:9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.

[houston]

It's always Preterism for the win.

[MarcBee]

Originally Posted by Abiding Now

Some folks will not suffer any persecution.
2Tim. 3:12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.

Good point. And, by the above standard, which visible American church group is being godly enough to trigger persecution? Who takes a stand right up in the world's face to proclaim what they think God wants according to the Bible?

Westboro Baptist, for one. Of course, they don't count according to Oneness gospel, nor according to the gospel of being nice. So who is left? Who else can demonstrate their persecution as a result of living godly?

I mean due to important issues--long blue denim skirts don't count.