Apostle Junia--Female Apostle - Page 4

Scott Pitta · #31 10-19-2014, 07:56 PM

If women can prophesy in church they can also teach.

If teaching a lesson equates with usurping authority over a person, I have not seen it in the NT.

Good word, Loren.

Sean · #32 10-19-2014, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott Pitta

If women can prophesy in church they can also teach.

If teaching a lesson equates with usurping authority over a person, I have not seen it in the NT.

Good word, Loren.

Have it your way bro....12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.(2 subjects here, teaching also usurping authority... notice the word "nor")

Godsdrummer · #33 10-20-2014, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sean

Brother Loren, do you see what you just did here?.....Paul said.....1 Timothy 2:12
12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.(that means not teaching men, folks)

You just EXPLAINED AWAY the passage that was clear as a bell.....Think about it.....

Sorry Sean, but taking one verse out of context and historical setting does not make it clear as a bell. You refuse to set the scripture in the historical setting, and a line it with other full passages. Just for the record what do you do with, Gal_3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

See the problem you have is that Paul was not speaking of usurping authority over men in general, for if we are one in Christ, no one has greater authority over another. There for Paul must be speaking only of a women's submission to her husband and Paul shows in Cor. 11.
The other thing you seem to miss in the historical setting of that day, which I explained and you seemed to miss as usual. Was that church in those days was nothing like what we experience today.
The greatest fault today in understanding scripture is our disregard for custom and the culture of that day. Hence the basis for erroneous doctrines in most churches today.

Sasha · #34 10-20-2014, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sean

Show me in the BIBLE how I am flawed please.

Sorry, but I cannot show you something that isn't there. How about you show me where in the bible you can do the things I mentioned you cannot.

Scott Pitta · #35 10-20-2014, 02:06 PM

A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent.

But women will be saved through childbearing...

The last phrase is part of the command. I find it amusing that those who feel women could not speak, and are emphatic about the clarity of that rule, have not a clue what the last phrase means, or how it applies to women today.

If you are not certain about the last phrase, be not certain you understand the first part of the command.

If Paul meant that women are to be silent. then they cannot prophecy in church. But since Paul makes it abundantly clear that women can prophecy in church, then his meaning here must be limited.

If women must be silent in church, who will teach Sunday School ?

KeptByTheWord · #36 10-20-2014, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott Pitta

A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent.

But women will be saved through childbearing...

The last phrase is part of the command. I find it amusing that those who feel women could not speak, and are emphatic about the clarity of that rule, have not a clue what the last phrase means, or how it applies to women today.

If you are not certain about the last phrase, be not certain you understand the first part of the command.

If Paul meant that women are to be silent. then they cannot prophecy in church. But since Paul makes it abundantly clear that women can prophecy in church, then his meaning here must be limited.

If women must be silent in church, who will teach Sunday School ?

How do you think the childbearing part affects the rest of the statement?

Sean · #37 10-20-2014, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer

Sorry Sean, but taking one verse out of context and historical setting does not make it clear as a bell. You refuse to set the scripture in the historical setting, and a line it with other full passages. Just for the record what do you do with, Gal_3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

See the problem you have is that Paul was not speaking of usurping authority over men in general, for if we are one in Christ, no one has greater authority over another. There for Paul must be speaking only of a women's submission to her husband and Paul shows in Cor. 11.
The other thing you seem to miss in the historical setting of that day, which I explained and you seemed to miss as usual. Was that church in those days was nothing like what we experience today.
The greatest fault today in understanding scripture is our disregard for custom and the culture of that day. Hence the basis for erroneous doctrines in most churches today.

.1 Timothy 2:12
12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence

You said all of that to "minimize" what Paul CLEARLY said bro....That not nice.

Sean · #38 10-20-2014, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott Pitta

A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent.

But women will be saved through childbearing...

The last phrase is part of the command. I find it amusing that those who feel women could not speak, and are emphatic about the clarity of that rule, have not a clue what the last phrase means, or how it applies to women today.

If you are not certain about the last phrase, be not certain you understand the first part of the command.

If Paul meant that women are to be silent. then they cannot prophecy in church. But since Paul makes it abundantly clear that women can prophecy in church, then his meaning here must be limited.

If women must be silent in church, who will teach Sunday School ?

The passage says.."over a man", not a boy. Moms teach boys of their own all day long.

Sean · #39 10-20-2014, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sasha

Sean, the first flaw in your logic is believing that, as a man, you have authority over all women.

I dont, I just have authority to teach the Word if you allow me to teach you in a congregational setting.

The second flaw is believing that anyone, man or woman, has authority over another simply by ministering to them.

Not to tell you what to do or how to live, just the authority of how to apply the Word to your life

The third flaw is your understanding of the word 'usurp' and incorrectly defining it in a situation where it's not taking place.

I just read its simple meaning there. I teach all women with the utmost respect. I actually believe that there should be women ELDERS for the women and men ELDERS for the men. The final authority should be however, in the hands of the men ELDERS as far as the direction of the church teachings are concerned and men as the ACTUAL teachers themselves over the adult congregation.

Esphes45 · #40 10-21-2014, 04:15 PM

Just surprised to see this reached 4 pages.

Jesus never ordained or called a woman to spread the gospel. Period. Jesus said I am the same yesterday, today and forever. So if you believe somehow today a woman can preach or teach then answer the question - Why did not Jesus call a female Apostle among the 12? Did he not see today?

12 men. Full of the Holy Ghost.

Just for the record, I am not against women teaching other women. I would not necessary call them elders but that is just me.

In some Apostolic churches they use the term "Mother" to reference an elder female. Why not Mother instead of Elder?